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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:27 pm
Posts: 13
Hey all. I just want to do a little introduction. I'm Mike, in Phoenix, AZ. I'm an ex-motocrosser from Florida turned T-4 paraplegic a few years ago, which is what got me interested in the Pilot (cause of stock hand controls and such).
Here's a pic of my ride. Fox shocks, some motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) work and scuffed up plastic. I also keep my dad's stock pilot (except for seat and harness).
Image

I've recently rebuilt the right rear knuckle and hub assembly (thanks to those who answered in my wanted thread).
Now I've got some other immediate and long term plans I want to get your imput on. I'm a good mechanic but am still learning about the pilot and I am limited in what I can fabricate. I've been dealing with ATV racing recently since I'm now in AZ.

First on the list is to replace a split cv boot (and the other 3 while I'm at it). I know my right axle is stuck in the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )), and I'm not sure about the left. Can I just disassemble the inner cv joints while on the car to slip the boots over?

Second, I'd like to add some extra light switches. One for the upper HID's, and one a whip light. I'm stuck on mounting options. I opened up the steering column dashboard and there's a few areas in there with room for a switch. I've also thought of mounting it on the upper front roll bar just under the roof visor with the use of this conduit box.
Here's some switches I've got laying around also.
Image

Also on the topic of lighting, with the addition of the HID's my battery seems to go dead quickly. I turn them off before I shut my car off, and on only after the Engine is running. (same with stock headlights). Does my electrical system need upgraded to run the HID's properly, and I also plan on upgrading the lights in the stock location soon.

I also plan on getting a skid plate to protect my butt and I'd like to get a beefier front bumper and skid plate from atv racing.
I've got slow leaky axle seals and/or tranny seals (which is correct terminology?), so hopefully I can get my axles out myself. Other words Ill have atvr give me a good go through my car and replace said leaky seals.
Long term plans (to save the dough) is to go long travel suspension and at that time relocate the radiator and ditch the airbox.

Nice to meet yall.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Hi and welcome to the site.

Have you read this yet http://pilotodyssey.com/800reasons.htm

You can change the CV boots without removing the axle stubs from the trans but they will need removed to change the seals in the trans.

How many watts is the lights your running?

What brand battery are you running?

The belly skid ATVR sells is nice but is hard to live with, first its a real pain in the ass to install then once bent its almost impossible to remove and reinstall because when you bend the skid it affects ALL the mounting points. To remove the seat for Engine maintenance and service you have to remove the ATVR skid, this takes a 3 min operation and turns it into an all day job, you also can no longer reach the seat adjusting bolts, you also loose a fe inches of ground clearance, this less ground clearance has over the years created the illision just how much of a Pilot saver the ATVR skid is the illusion is also enhanced when the ATVR skid owners lower the ground clearance even further by running 22" tires.

IMO come up with a seat skid that does not hinder adjusting and removing the seat.

Their is plenty of skid talk here http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=743
Their is other talk about skids just do a search for Pilot and skid or skid and plate start reading.

The ATVR front bumpers are good don't buy one of these from "the other guy" fact is its always a GOOD idea to ask here before you buy anything to find out what others think not that you have to listen :-) its nice to get a consumer report before buying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeIE6KpHsC0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9epoTz5pfm0


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:27 pm
Posts: 13
Hey hoser, thanks for the reply.

I've used your site as a resource for a while now, but am just now posting. I have read that article.
I'm hoping my left axle will slide out, then to tap out the right one. So I can do all the needed services myself.

Should I use the grease you get in the little packets with cv boot kits? During the knuckle rebuild I cleaned out all the old and dirty gunk from the cv's and just used a good hi-temp automotive grease. I also packed the joint and boot full with grease. It all functioned smoothly and easily, but I just wonder because the grease packets don't contain nearly that much.

My lights run at 30 watts each. I know there's calculations to figure out all the power requirements, but that's about the part I stopped paying attention in physics class. Keep in mind I want to upgrade the lights in the stock position soon also.

The battery is 2 years old. Not sure on the brand. Decent I'm sure. It does hold a good charge but only if I am overly stingy with when I run which lights.

How about the switch mountings for the lights? I'm leaning more towards the extra effort of locating them in the steering column.

I like the atvr skid because it has good coverage and it is beefy which equals good protection. I was also thinking about key bolt access and couldn't you just drill out large holes like on a mx or atv skid plate? I planned on drilling out a few holes for sand and water drainage anyway.
And thanks for the heads up on those wimpy products. I came across those vids while reading your site before.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:27 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:04 pm
Posts: 78
Location: brisbane, Australia
how many lights do you have? assuming theres two lights.... 30 watts @12 volts. so.. 60 watts divided by 12 volts gives us 5 amps. so you need at least 5 amps to run those two lights alone. how many watts are the stock lights?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
MX45 wrote:
Hey hoser, thanks for the reply.

I've used your site as a resource for a while now, but am just now posting. I have read that article.
I'm hoping my left axle will slide out, then to tap out the right one. So I can do all the needed services myself.

Should I use the grease you get in the little packets with cv boot kits? During the knuckle rebuild I cleaned out all the old and dirty gunk from the cv's and just used a good hi-temp automotive grease. I also packed the joint and boot full with grease. It all functioned smoothly and easily, but I just wonder because the grease packets don't contain nearly that much.

My lights run at 30 watts each. I know there's calculations to figure out all the power requirements, but that's about the part I stopped paying attention in physics class. Keep in mind I want to upgrade the lights in the stock position soon also.

The battery is 2 years old. Not sure on the brand. Decent I'm sure. It does hold a good charge but only if I am overly stingy with when I run which lights.

How about the switch mountings for the lights? I'm leaning more towards the extra effort of locating them in the steering column.

I like the atvr skid because it has good coverage and it is beefy which equals good protection. I was also thinking about key bolt access and couldn't you just drill out large holes like on a mx or atv skid plate? I planned on drilling out a few holes for sand and water drainage anyway.
And thanks for the heads up on those wimpy products. I came across those vids while reading your site before.


I am glad your able to make good use of my site its nice to know people actually read the material I offer.

I buy and use the Honda CV boots they don't come with grease, I buy CV grease that contains molybdenum disulfide, I like to clean out the old stuff, if the boot has had a cut and dirt got inside I like to remove 100% of the old stuff to ensure I removed all the dirt, if its not split then I don't see leaving behind some of the old grease a problem.

IMO their is only one battery that is a good brand of battery to be used in the Pilot and that's a YUASA. The first sign of a cheap battery is it is weak the first time you put a load on it that's not normal, or a cold day, or the day you run out of gas and have extended cranking trying to prime the fuel system again.

The stock system using a YUASA battery is bullet proof, I have added two 55 watt driving lights and used them in conjunction with the stock lights and never had a problem but I also used real strict battery management, when I stopped and the Engine was at idle all the lights or at least the extra lights were turned off, when I didnt need the extra 55 watt lights I never turned them on, when I could use the 55 watt lights and didnt need the stock lights I turned the stock lights off.

The stator only puts out 220 watts, I have no idea how many watts the fan uses but you can see the lights dim when the fan kicks on.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
be careful over loading the system. Not to many know that when you run a low battery (voltage ) it affect the engination output to the plug. they are directly proportional. lower input voltage lower output voltage higher input voltage higher output vlotage. oops there a performance tip. any body notice wet fouling running extra light that over load the stator output really noticed after an late night ride. most chaulk it up to night air but think about it.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Sorry, I use an 80% method.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3760
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
The stator puts out 200 watts @ 5,000 rpm...Baz


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:27 pm
Posts: 13
Thanks everyone.

I've got a few more things I have planned that I forgot to mention.

Install vforce reeds. I've got boysen set up now, and from my motocross experience the vforce gives way more power gains. Would jetting likely need changed? And were is best place to buy? I see atvr has them, but list no part numbers. I can find no other information on which model vforce reed cage set fits the pilot.

I keep seeing mention of the rev limiter bypass mod, but cannot find specific instructions.

And finally, where is best place to buy new plastics? Are they even available? I'd like to start getting new pieces in preparation of a down to the frame makeover.
Has anyone every ditched the plastics and fenders and made sheetmetal sidepannels? I think it would look cool and more like a drakart or big sandcar.
Edit: I did see a picture from a member here that did this to the front end. It looked very good.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
MX45 wrote:
Thanks everyone.

I've got a few more things I have planned that I forgot to mention.

Install vforce reeds. I've got boysen set up now, and from my motocross experience the vforce gives way more power gains. Would jetting likely need changed? And were is best place to buy? I see atvr has them, but list no part numbers. I can find no other information on which model vforce reed cage set fits the pilot.

I keep seeing mention of the rev limiter bypass mod, but cannot find specific instructions.

And finally, where is best place to buy new plastics? Are they even available? I'd like to start getting new pieces in preparation of a down to the frame makeover.
Has anyone every ditched the plastics and fenders and made sheetmetal sidepannels? I think it would look cool and more like a drakart or big sandcar.
Edit: I did see a picture from a member here that did this to the front end. It looked very good.


Can you list your current mods?

IMO the money you would spend on the vfarce would be better spend else where, lets face it the difference between the worse reed cage setup to the best reed cage setup is only going to be 1-2 hp tops, your going to spend 150 bux for something your never going to feel, if so I have a "power band" I will sell you... :-)

I never used or tried a vfarce in my Pilot simply because my Pilot always blew right past the guys running them and I didnt want to slow my Pilot down now if I ran across a Pilot that could out accelerate my Pilot and they just installed a vfarce you might get me to try one, again focus on other things..

One thing that I keep finding and reading about is carbon fiber reeds work better but only for a short time then they lose their tension and memory and the gains become losses, guys telling me this are guys doing 2 stroke Engine development using dynos, motorcycle and sled engines, in some applications they have to change the reeds about every 20 minutes of dyno time so they are not chasing their tail when making other mods and testing.

Here is a page I started when they came out and members from our group started showing an intrest in them.
http://pilotodyssey.com/vforce.htm

Like anyhting else the bottom line is if you have the money and the time buy one and try it, PLEASE don't come back here and claim a night and day improvement because I will have 100 questions asking how you arrived at your claims, so take notes and document your findings their will be a test... I don't want to seem rude but I have grown real tired of the physiological HP gains people more often than not have:-)


Is this the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) no rev mod your looking for? http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=1628

Did you see this on the Pilot plastic? http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=3773

If your riding at the dunes their is not much of a need for fenders, when I bought my Pilot it came without front fenders I only rode it once and was sold on a set of fenders, if you turn the front tires in wet grass you get a face full of water, if you turn in mud you get a face full of mud :shock: do yourself a favor before you fabricate side panels remove the fenders and take your Pilot on a few trips to see what you get, if you ride only in the sand any paint you put on the panels will probably be sand blasted off I know even with fenders my plastic side panels are dull where the fenders don't protect them. The finish on the Drakarts (gelcoat?) seems to hold up rather well in the sand you might consider making fiberglass side panels?


-::


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3760
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Put a pair of these on,they work great! and as they flap,they flap the crap off...Baz
http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopi ... rapinators


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
bugeye59 wrote:
Put a pair of these on,they work great! and as they flap,they flap the crap off...Baz
http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopi ... rapinators


Those seem to fit pretty nice!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:27 pm
Posts: 13
Hoser,
Interesting info on the vforce. I knew about the chipping of carbon fiber reeds, but not the fraying and seperating of layers. Like I said, I've had good experience with them, but that was on 125 and 250 modern 2 strokes. I'm sure a 400 sucks harder.
Still, you say you have never tried them. I get an assumption from other topics that they do give you a bit more snap on the throttle, which is what I'm looking for. Or is this a provable myth?

Yes that's the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) rev limiter mod I was looking for. Thanks. All that work for one little solder though!? If Bill is up for it I'd rather donate my money for his efforts.
*side note* how can I search for 3 letter words? CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), rev, mod, cv

No, I didnt see that on the fender until just now. Sigh. But I thought one front fender was already discontinued?

Sand riding mainly, since my move to AZ from FL I expect to be riding sand almost always. And I agree I would be taking a face full of dirt or sand. Though, I would never get rid of the stock plastics, I'd always like the option to revert back. Just thinking big here :)

Some history on my pilots. A stock one and mod one were bought from someone you know, Geoff. The stock is owned by my dad, but I keep it in AZ. The mod one is mine. Both have been 100% reliable so far *knock on wood*.
I'm not 100% on what's been done to mine, and he's foggy on it also. [Though I'm in a partial tear down right now just going over alot of the above mentioned things, I'll be taking the opportunity to really go through and learn my machine from ground up. I just need this weekend's time. Ill be doing a motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) tear down on top end in the off season.] Anyway mods are: cylinder mods (unknown) with G Force Racing engraved into the cylinder, the head is Powerhead by Paul Turner Racing, Rev pipe (unknown brand), silencer (unknown), I believe Boyesen reeds, Powerblock cluth, dual intake air box mod, Fox shocks with stock A arms, seat and harness. I'm unsure of the jetting, though plug readings are excellent with the current setup.

I'll take that powerband you're selling though :D

here's a few more pics. From Thankgiving, me in my car and Geoff in his new ride.

Geoff
Image

Me
Image

Geoff
Image

Me
Image


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:27 pm
Posts: 13
more questions...

I'm trying to remove the air box. The service manual says there is only one bolt, near the bottom. The backside, located inside the air box, lies in a secret covered space. In which I can only assume is a nut? The bolt on the outside just spins with what sounds like a nut spinning in a plastic mold inside. What the ???

As I've said, I'm replacing one torn cv boot (among other things). I have a full set of replacements. Should I just replace them all, or wait for each to fail? They each appear to have different different level of condition. "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

I've discovered that I slightly bent the long bolt that goes through the lower rods and knuckle.
Is that something to get OEM, Industrial supply, or just bend it back?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
MX45 wrote:
more questions...

I'm trying to remove the air box. The service manual says there is only one bolt, near the bottom. The backside, located inside the air box, lies in a secret covered space. In which I can only assume is a nut? The bolt on the outside just spins with what sounds like a nut spinning in a plastic mold inside. What the ???

As I've said, I'm replacing one torn cv boot (among other things). I have a full set of replacements. Should I just replace them all, or wait for each to fail? They each appear to have different different level of condition. "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

I've discovered that I slightly bent the long bolt that goes through the lower rods and knuckle.
Is that something to get OEM, Industrial supply, or just bend it back?


The throttle response on my Pilot was/is instant I cant see spending 150 bux trying to improve it, someone said replacement reeds for the vforce are 60 bux?

I did a search for CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) and it returned 93 matches
I did a search for CV it returned 0
Searched for CV boot 129 matches

that's a brass insert inside the air box plastic that's molded in I assume the plastic is no longer holding?
I will look at my air box in a few hours see if I can work out a non destructive method of removal.

I have bent and replace those bolts more times than I can count I finally went to a bolt supply house and ordered a stronger bolt, grade 8 I think, we need to ask Lee what the factory grade is before you order, on a side note one side of my Pilots rear suspension has something tweaked if I install a straight bolt it throws off the alinement so I use the bent bolt to adjust it straight, turn your bent bolt and watch the flange your tire bolts to, I can adjust camber and toe in with mine, the other side uses a straight bolt :-)

Post detail pics of your Engine once its apart.

When I run across CV boots that look dry rot or are starting to crack in the lower part of the pleats (spread them and look) I change them all at once, I have had to change one that got cut by something while riding so only replaced the cut boot as the other were still in great shape.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
Here is the bottom of my Pilot air box and the brass thing in question, the hump you see is where the insert is


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
Outside the air box you can see the bolt and the brass insert


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
Without the bolt


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
What you might try is drilling a hole from the inside through the plastic and start drilling into the brass but not ver far, just deep enough you can remove the drill bit from the drill and stick the non drilling end into the hole and hopefully it will hold the brass insert long enough you can unscrew the bolt?

If the drill wont hold the insert maybe take a torch with a small concentrated flame and heat the area around the inset inside the box until it starts to melt then squeeze it with a visegrips?

Remember GAS fumes lol you need to make sure you don't blow yourself up!!! You will need to remove the tube between the box and carb, cover stuff up, well ventilated area bla bla bla so you don't Poofkaboom!


Other ideas are to grind the head off the bolt then once you have the box on the bench drill out the old bolt and try to get some glue behind the insert to glue it to the plastic again OR screw in a bolt and heat the bolt with a torch until the plastic starts to melt then when it cools it will hold again?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:17 pm 
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Location: Wichita ks
Mine on the 89 spun in the plastic. I do belive the previous owner over tightened. I now with the air filter removed pinch it with a set of vise gripes then loosen and reinstall bolt as needed. I also use a litle anti seieze and a star waser on bolt.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:48 pm
Posts: 1037
Location: CT
I would replace all the CV boots. Definatly do both on the axle that is torn. You are right there anyways. The service manual is very good and makes this job very simple to understand.
I would not waste my money on the carbon fiber reeds in any machine that uses cvt. They do work well in mx and trail bikes but the response is not noticable on cvt vehicles. If you do buy them, you will have to replace them on a yearly basis due to cracking and peeling. If not they will eventually end up getting sucked in and destroying your Engine.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:33 am 
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Thanks for the help on the airbox. But for now I'll leave it as is, I've got a long enough to-do list and I want to ride next weekend! I only wanted to get in there and do a good cleaning.
Good tip, adnoh.

Hoser, that bolt through the lower arms probably will work as is, and it likely doesnt even effect anything because the bend is so slight. But it bugs me knowing its there :P

King Kx convinced me on the reeds. And from reading other comments. But its unanimous that they will eventually fail.

New question. Just how in the hell do you install the cv boot clamps? I had 2 differnt set's of clamps last time 'round. Now these ones are different again. All seem so simple, but never easy. You need 5 hands.

clamp
Image

am I clueless?
Image

current state
Image


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:05 am 
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Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Each manufacture has its own clamp and style I only deal with the Honda stuff maybe someone else can help with the after market stuff.

You can reuse the Honda clamps over and over, sometimes the Honda clamps will not work with other brands of boots, in the one pic as you point out its not tight enough have you tried to make it tighter? I have seen tools that are used to tighten them, Lightspeed, stoneman and Drakman have changed plenty


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:24 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:48 pm
Posts: 1037
Location: CT
To do the job correctly you need a pair of special pliers. I just did a set on mine and did not have the correct tool. I had brooks help me as it became a two person jon without the correct tool. I put a pair of vice grips on the tail part to tighten the clamp while pushing the opposite direction with a 1/4" screwdriver. This held the crimp portion of the clamp where we could work with it, then using a punch, crimp the sqare block of the clamp that would normally require the special tool. You could always use zip ties to get you by, they don't look as professional but they will work.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:43 pm
Posts: 1368
Location: Colorado
Here is a tool that I have used, it is one of those solutions that makes you say "I wish I had thought of that"

I don't remember for sure where I got mine, but it was at a local auto supply store.

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/lis30950.html


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