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Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion...
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Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
ChrisV wrote:
you have me curious now. I have a complete 87 trx250r front end sitting on my shelf and a set of hyper beadlocks for them. is it really that simple?


It might be -- not sure. Once I get the brackets tomorrow, and if the spacers are right, and when I get some wheels, and when I bleed the new lines and calipers...they may work, lol. Still more work ahead.



What is the offset on your stock TRX wheels? Is it 3+2 or 4+1?
Author:  B S [ Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
I guess I can shed a little more light on the idea.

What I've made is the bracket and spacer plates to mount the caliper. There is a large plate in 3/16" steel that bolts to the INSIDE of the spindle/knuckle. There's a lot going on there on that side of the spindle, so I had to design a plate that would not only fit all the features, but also use some existing threaded holes. Then there's a spacer plate that fits between the larger plate and caliper. No mods have to be made to the stock equipment. The larger plate does have to be "dressed" on one side to fit a blend-radius on the back of the spindle, but that's it.

The spacer plate will simply be used like a washer -- not welded. The stiffness is provided by the larger plate. Spacer plate simply locates the caliper in reference to the rotor. I'm not 100% sure on the thickness of the spacer plate, so I had it cut in 3/16" and 1/8" steel. And since the parts are not welded, the left side and right side parts are EXACTLY THE SAME -- just put the small spacer on the other side.

Parts will be here tomorrow. The 4 big plates and 8 small plates (2 sets) cost me $60, but it could be even cheaper because the cnc guy's minimum job price is $60.

Another hint on the caliper make/model...the threads are 5/16-24 (not metric). ;)

polaris rzr caliper?
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
B S wrote:
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
I guess I can shed a little more light on the idea.

What I've made is the bracket and spacer plates to mount the caliper. There is a large plate in 3/16" steel that bolts to the INSIDE of the spindle/knuckle. There's a lot going on there on that side of the spindle, so I had to design a plate that would not only fit all the features, but also use some existing threaded holes. Then there's a spacer plate that fits between the larger plate and caliper. No mods have to be made to the stock equipment. The larger plate does have to be "dressed" on one side to fit a blend-radius on the back of the spindle, but that's it.

The spacer plate will simply be used like a washer -- not welded. The stiffness is provided by the larger plate. Spacer plate simply locates the caliper in reference to the rotor. I'm not 100% sure on the thickness of the spacer plate, so I had it cut in 3/16" and 1/8" steel. And since the parts are not welded, the left side and right side parts are EXACTLY THE SAME -- just put the small spacer on the other side.

Parts will be here tomorrow. The 4 big plates and 8 small plates (2 sets) cost me $60, but it could be even cheaper because the cnc guy's minimum job price is $60.

Another hint on the caliper make/model...the threads are 5/16-24 (not metric). ;)

polaris rzr caliper?


Nope, not a RZR. The RZR stuff is too rich for blood anyways! lol
Author:  hoser [ Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
B S wrote:
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
I guess I can shed a little more light on the idea.

What I've made is the bracket and spacer plates to mount the caliper. There is a large plate in 3/16" steel that bolts to the INSIDE of the spindle/knuckle. There's a lot going on there on that side of the spindle, so I had to design a plate that would not only fit all the features, but also use some existing threaded holes. Then there's a spacer plate that fits between the larger plate and caliper. No mods have to be made to the stock equipment. The larger plate does have to be "dressed" on one side to fit a blend-radius on the back of the spindle, but that's it.

The spacer plate will simply be used like a washer -- not welded. The stiffness is provided by the larger plate. Spacer plate simply locates the caliper in reference to the rotor. I'm not 100% sure on the thickness of the spacer plate, so I had it cut in 3/16" and 1/8" steel. And since the parts are not welded, the left side and right side parts are EXACTLY THE SAME -- just put the small spacer on the other side.

Parts will be here tomorrow. The 4 big plates and 8 small plates (2 sets) cost me $60, but it could be even cheaper because the cnc guy's minimum job price is $60.

Another hint on the caliper make/model...the threads are 5/16-24 (not metric). ;)

polaris rzr caliper?


Nope, not a RZR. The RZR stuff is too rich for blood anyways! lol


Right on go with something plentiful and cheap, also consider replacement pads as part of your choice.
Author:  B S [ Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
hoser wrote:
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
B S wrote:
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
I guess I can shed a little more light on the idea.

What I've made is the bracket and spacer plates to mount the caliper. There is a large plate in 3/16" steel that bolts to the INSIDE of the spindle/knuckle. There's a lot going on there on that side of the spindle, so I had to design a plate that would not only fit all the features, but also use some existing threaded holes. Then there's a spacer plate that fits between the larger plate and caliper. No mods have to be made to the stock equipment. The larger plate does have to be "dressed" on one side to fit a blend-radius on the back of the spindle, but that's it.

The spacer plate will simply be used like a washer -- not welded. The stiffness is provided by the larger plate. Spacer plate simply locates the caliper in reference to the rotor. I'm not 100% sure on the thickness of the spacer plate, so I had it cut in 3/16" and 1/8" steel. And since the parts are not welded, the left side and right side parts are EXACTLY THE SAME -- just put the small spacer on the other side.

Parts will be here tomorrow. The 4 big plates and 8 small plates (2 sets) cost me $60, but it could be even cheaper because the cnc guy's minimum job price is $60.

Another hint on the caliper make/model...the threads are 5/16-24 (not metric). ;)

polaris rzr caliper?


Nope, not a RZR. The RZR stuff is too rich for blood anyways! lol


Right on go with something plentiful and cheap, also consider replacement pads as part of your choice.

trx 450 calipers ?

a cbr600 caliper there $20 shipped for the pair
Author:  ChrisV [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
i will try and measure them tonight. i don't have any stock 250r wheels though. i have several aftermarket sets and a set of 450r wheels.
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
ChrisV wrote:
i will try and measure them tonight. i don't have any stock 250r wheels though. i have several aftermarket sets and a set of 450r wheels.



Let me know if you've got a pair of fronts with 3+2 with 4/144 lugs -- I need 'em!
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
CNC plasma'd parts are perfect. They fit great and I was able to bolt up the whole shabang. Just had to ream out the holes with the tapered drill bit. The many iterations using card stock paid off. Just need some 5/16-24 bolts for the calipers.

Besides getting a different set of front wheels, the whole conversion will be rather simple. Pull off the stock wheel, remove stock hub, undo the brake line, remove the stock back plate, bolt the new caliper bracket, bolt on the caliper spacer & caliper, hook-up the brake lines, and bleed. No need to remove the knuckle or split the ball joints.

I'm still putting the pieces of the puzzle together for a budget-friendly conversion to steel-braided lines. The braided lines on the calipers I have are 24" long with a 10mm fitting on the tube end, and 10mm banjo on the other. I need to find a 36" line with 10mm banjo and 10mm flare fitting + a 3-way brake line tee for flare tubing with 10mm threads. Then I can use the stock master cyl feed line. Also trying to learn just WTF the "3AN" hose sizes are, since they're more popular and cheaper.

So my grocery list is...
> 4qty of 5/16-24 bolts in 5/8" length, or 1" and I can put safety pins in the ends
> brake line with metric banjo end + 10mm threaded flare tube end
> brake line tee
> 4/144 10x5 3+2 wheels, aluminum


UPDATE:
> Bolts purchased.
> Brake lines & fittings found (Jegs/Summit)
> Brake tee found (Jegs/Summit)
> Wheels found...local Honda shop can get ITP steel 1-pc wheels (pair) for $93.90 incl tax. Can't find anything new, strong, and as cheap.

For the FRONT & REAR conversion to steel braided lines (3000psi rating or better)...
AAAAAAND...going through Summit for all the right parts, I can get both front AND rear steel-braided conversion kits (including front master-cyl line) shipped to my door including tax for ALMOST HALF of what A/S was charging people (A/S = $154.99 for front and $54.99 for rear + shipping). Dude was making a thick profit, or getting boned on part prices! :shock:

But this is ALL theoretical. I have yet to confirm lengths & threads.

And THIS is what I do on my lunch breaks...LOL!
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
I also need to measure the placement of the TRX hubs versus the stock hub to check the offset. I may have a set of 4/144-to-4/110 x 1" thk adapters made so as long as I can keep the offset between 3+2 and 4+1 somehow with the stock wheels. I can get 6" OD x 1" thk pucks of 6061-T6511 for $9/ea and quickly drill some holes and recesses with decent-enough precision on my little mill at home, and anything else per a ''government job'' at work. Simply amazes me nobody makes a 144-to-110 conversion ring. :shock: They make them the other way (converting a 110-to-144) for like $70 including studs & nuts all day long.
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
Front & Rear steel-braided parts ordered and will still ship out today. :-)
Author:  consol [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
AN-X sizing is this

X / 16

AN-3 is 3/16" line
AN-8 is 1/2" line, etc.

PS you'll need AN wrenches, or be gentle with a crescent

PPS AN fittings do not use thread sealant
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
consol wrote:
AN-X sizing is this

X / 16

AN-3 is 3/16" line
AN-8 is 1/2" line, etc.

PS you'll need AN wrenches, or be gentle with a crescent

PPS AN fittings do not use thread sealant



Thanks for the info!

Parts should be here today. Its nice living an hour away from Summit's warehouse.
Author:  ChrisV [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
DMoneyAllstar wrote:

Parts should be here today. Its nice living an hour away from Summit's warehouse.


i would be broke :-)
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
Ha, I hear ya. It was super tempting to buy a bunch of crap when I had everyone's Pilot intake $'s in my Paypal account, lol. But its all been withdrawn and applied to my credit card balance from the machine shop (waw-wawwww), lol. Now that I think about it...I wonder if I got rewards points for that??? :shock:

I ordered the Summit parts around 4:30pm, got the order confirmation at 6:32PM yesterday, and they still managed to get on the UPS truck out for delivery today. Nice! I did have to swap brands on a couple parts to make sure everything was in-stock and available to ship today. Some of their stuff is ordered from another vendor via Summit's website and can't ship same day. There's a good price spread, too. Be sure to shop equivalents. Not like I've got a $50k race Engine here, lol.

As for the AN fittings, a short-handled crescent wrench is fine. Just can't go balls-out and torque them down as if they were a steel bolt or flare fitting. I've used them before, just never knew the sizing comparison.


Also...I think I've had enough projects now that I can simply tell my wife "I'm spending some more $'s on R&D for another project" when I buy some parts. But what she doesn't know is that I really don't make much of anything on these "group" projects besides potential rewards points.
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
Hoping to have both hubs converted to disc brakes & plumbed this weekend. Too bad I don't have any 4/144 wheels to try it out! =(
Author:  consol [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Hoping to have both hubs converted to disc brakes & plumbed this weekend. Too bad I don't have any 4/144 wheels to try it out! =(


If your FL350 currently has alum wheels, and you think the calipers will clear, just drill them out

I'm going to be doing the same on a pair of mine when my front conversion is done

Do you have CAD - you could layout a scale template with centerlines, punch the centers and drill away
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
consol wrote:
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Hoping to have both hubs converted to disc brakes & plumbed this weekend. Too bad I don't have any 4/144 wheels to try it out! =(


If your FL350 currently has alum wheels, and you think the calipers will clear, just drill them out

I'm going to be doing the same on a pair of mine when my front conversion is done

Do you have CAD - you could layout a scale template with centerlines, punch the centers and drill away



I do have CAD, and could totally drill them out. I already have a 4/110 + 4/144 template with the 2nd set rotated 45-deg that was for an adapter. I've got a couple extra sets of stock front wheels (even a pair with tires!). Cut the template out on card stock, line up the 4/110 holes w/ bolts, mark the centers of the 4/144 holes, and DUNZO. Just have to be super anal about it so as not to create a wobbly wheel.
Author:  consol [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
consol wrote:
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Hoping to have both hubs converted to disc brakes & plumbed this weekend. Too bad I don't have any 4/144 wheels to try it out! =(


If your FL350 currently has alum wheels, and you think the calipers will clear, just drill them out

I'm going to be doing the same on a pair of mine when my front conversion is done

Do you have CAD - you could layout a scale template with centerlines, punch the centers and drill away



I do have CAD, and could totally drill them out. I already have a 4/110 + 4/144 template with the 2nd set rotated 45-deg that was for an adapter. I've got a couple extra sets of stock front wheels (even a pair with tires!). Cut the template out on card stock, line up the 4/110 holes w/ bolts, mark the centers of the 4/144 holes, and DUNZO. Just have to be super anal about it so as not to create a wobbly wheel.


I'd print them on white paper - to scale - and use a back light behind the rim

Measure out the center hub hole of your wheels and get that on the print as well as crosshairs in each hole

You should be able to see the line up very clearly and once you punch/mark the centers - your golden

I hear the human eye is good for thousandths of an inch - so I hear

Just how I'd do it - my fear would be cardboard getting sloppy

Good luck
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
Well, the only extra front wheels I have that I'd be willing to drill are stock Oddy rims...which won't work anyways. I'm not drilling my polished .190 DWT's...no way. And I'm simply amazed (and annoyed) at what people with an old Honda 400EX or 250R want for their stock front rims. People are nothing less than retarded! This one guy wanted $80 a rim shipped from PA to OH, but...I can buy brand spanking new ITP aluminum wheels for $50 shipped (????). So I'm going with some new evilBay wheels. I've got the brackets, the calipers, the hubs/rotors, the hardware, the brake lines, and tires...just need wheels.
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
FINALLY found a set of front TRX450R wheels that won't break my budget ($50). And they've got 50-60% tread tires on 'em! But...they're painted red and I plan to blast & paint them if it all works out. Hoping to pick them up this week or weekend.

Wife is 5-6wks from popping out kid#2 and is on bed-rest, so I haven't had time to mess with anything outside the house or garden. Fun!
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
Well, I finally got the disc brake setup on the buggy. First, I learned a lesson...the left and right spindles are NOT mirror images of each other. I had designed the brackets off the mag side spindle, but the clutch side spindle is a tad different, enough to where I had to open up the bracket holes and grind on it a small bit. I guess...figure they are two different castings made only one year of production, so they were what they were. Just wondering how different they are set to set (?).

Got one bleed on the 2 piston calipers and they still need another, but I need to do it with my tried/true method with the clear tube and suction. The clutch side caliper has air in it still and perhaps I need to use the thinner spacer. Also need to double check the fit and motion of the caliper, pads, and disc to make sure they're playing nicely. But the brakes are working as good or better than the drum brakes already. Everything fits...just need to make fine adjustments. :-) It's past 2 am and I'm finally tired, lol.

Will end up redesigning the clutch side bracket to match that spindle eventually.
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
....The Farr kit is $500 + s/h, but allows you to use the stock wheels. Looking at the costs of existing parts and then the cost of the fab'd parts his kit includes, his price is fair. So I'm 100% not knocking his kit at all! :-) I'm just cheap and like to do stuff myself.


Looks like.the price of the Farr kit has come down. It's like $400CA now and used to be $550CA.
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
Been a while...but I've got some vacay time coming up (FINALLY). Need to get buggy #1 in "hop in and ride" shape. Lack of solid brakes has kept her in isolation for a while besides a few monthly start/heat cycles.

Finally going to rebuild the master cylinder and convert the long rear hard line to a long SS braided line. This means the entire system will be refurb'd including master cyl rebuild (ebay kit with seals, spring, piston), SS front lines/splitter conversion, front-drum-to-disc-conversion, rear caliper overhaul w/ new seals, and SS rear line conversion.

If my brakes don't work with a shizzle after this system overhaul, then....I guess I'll just kick the tire and put the tarp back over her. or convert the master to dual masters. I actually have the dual masters and rezzies, but was saving them for the Rotax buggy.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
Pics ??
Why so secret ??
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dan's Budget-friendly FL350R Front Disc Brake Conversion
canadian oddy wrote:
Pics ??
Why so secret ??


Once I have the disk brakes working as they should, I'll share my details. I spent a lot of time & a couple hundy $'s with my own R&D. I don't want someone to just take my idea & info and simply beat me to the finish line. That's all. =)
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