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Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=124&t=11738		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  hoser [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
While in Vegas I picked up the basket case Pilot I bought and also picked up a Pilot Engine Rppjr had and wanted me to CSI and to rebuild.

Got a chance to tear it down, before starting I sealed up the Engine then put it in the shop sink and spend a hr or so scrubbing all the oil/grease/dirt off the Engine never seen a Pilot Engine so dirty its almost like the owner sprayed the Engine down with oil before each ride then let the dirt soak in and turn rick hard.

Once clean can see the former owner was a silicone sealant homo must have figured you need to use the whole tube on one Engine.

First I pulled the clutch off looks like who ever installed the clutch never cleaned up the end of the crank before installing the rust on the crank does not match the rust found on the clutch, the clutch looks almost new.

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Author:  hoser [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Head has been damaged in the past and also has been machined.

Notice the holes are not round this head has been moving around while the Engine has been running.

Havent lapped it yet but I doubt its actually flat looks like someone tried to machine it with a grinder.

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Author:  hoser [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Head off top of cylinder looks like its had a few head gaskets but the gasket surface was not cleaned properly.

Studs will be removed and the top of the cylinder lapped to ensure its flat.

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Author:  hoser [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
The cylinder sets on a copper spacer that measures .092 thick they used two stock gaskets that measure .020 thick and about 1 tube of red silicone to seal.

Must be a reason for the spacer so I measured the height of the cylinder and it measures 5.231 tall I then measured a stock Pilot cylinder and it measures 5.317 tall

Someone cut .086 off the top of the cylinder can only assume this was done to adjust the height of the transfer ports.

The current piston is a 81.50 wiseco.

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Author:  hoser [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Split the bottom end apart someone has been here before the gaskets are green and has about 1/2 tube of white silicone sealer on them lol

The crankshaft has been rebuilt the rod looks and feels good, they welded the pin after the rebuild this one looks like they welded it all around.

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Author:  hoser [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Some gouges inside the case must be damage from a past failure I will clean them up when I do the case mods and before its reassembled.

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Author:  hoser [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Lots of cleaning and inspecting left to do I will take more pics and post later.
Author:  Nuke Em [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Silicone Homo...love that phrase! LMAO

Well if you use an angle grinder to clean mating surfaces, you need a couple of tubes to get it to seal up. :-) and just so you know, that "technique" is way faster than lapping! LMAO again

Oh, the Miracle Whip in the first pic may have gone bad. Sorry, had to say it. :shock:
Author:  Rppjr [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Hoser I picked up a recoil basket, I can send it with the gaskets if you would like.
By raising the transfer ports, is there any benefit to doing this?
Does the rod appear to be a stock one or aftermarket?
Thanks
Bob
Author:  nickRNR [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Nuke Em wrote:
Oh, the Miracle Whip in the first pic may have gone bad. Sorry, had to say it. :shock:


I noticed that too, but miracle whip is bad from the get go...yuck!
Author:  Fatcat [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
nickRNR wrote:
Nuke Em wrote:
Oh, the Miracle Whip in the first pic may have gone bad. Sorry, had to say it. :shock:


I noticed that too, but miracle whip is bad from the get go...yuck!


Pshhhh what!?!?? First time I opened this thread I'm not gonna lie. I went and made myself a sandwich. I think they call it salad dressing :shock:. Yuck for that but its damn good on a sandwich. Much better than mayonnaise. And I thought I was the only weirdo who noticed it lol. Subliminal advertising!
Author:  rmesser [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
What did you do after seeing the girls dressed like sheep in the other post? ..............Maybe you better not answer that. :-)
Author:  hoser [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Rppjr wrote:
Hoser I picked up a recoil basket, I can send it with the gaskets if you would like.
By raising the transfer ports, is there any benefit to doing this?
Does the rod appear to be a stock one or aftermarket?
Thanks
Bob



Yes send the recoil basket with the gaskets so I can install it here.

I sent a PM to adnoh gave him the link to this thread he understands changing the port timing better than I do will let him explain if he gets a chance.

They also machined the flywheel to make it lighter will post pics later.
Author:  adnoh [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
I will do what I can. I will review closer and ask for some numbers and pics to enter into a spreed sheet. Mean while if the owner or "H" can post up a pics or tell me what bolt on parts he has, it will help. Pipe (hand formed or stamped),carb ( type and size), intake set up(reeds type valve angle spaced or not), clutch( alt or hrd) and puck weight quanity if power block, rev delete, bore size, piston type etc. More the better. Since its spaced and flywheel lightened look to see if the pick up as been altered or the timing weight on the flywheel as been altered effecting retard timing extending the over rev.

First pic I need is with the jug set on bench and slide the old piston down the cylinder. Then do it again with the cylinder spacer so the cylinder is raised up allowing the piston skirt to contact the table. Take pics of the inside of the cylinder showing the piton crown edge in relation to the ports opening. Provide piston skirt to crown edge number and from the top of the wrist pin boss to crown edge. I can use this to compare what I have and done. I will then advise what other numbers I need. It is clear that it has atvr on it and the port works looks like it as well.

This could be simply a spaced ATVR port job with other mods to restore CR and Squish for high RPM power. The fact that the both side of crank are fully welded and the flywheel has been altered they have have forgot to alter the crank its self for the rpm that is ran at. We all know you can not balance a single cylinder however you can alter the balance at a given rpm to reduce the effect of high speed vibration.
Author:  Rppjr [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
It does have a rev box, 2 pipes one is hand formed the other is stamped. Look to be boyseen Reeds in a stock cage with the Reed stuffer. Does not have a reed spacer though. It is running a PWK 39mm carb with a sudco sticker on it. I can get jet #'s for you later if you also need that. It is running a power bloc clutch but I am uncertain of the number of weights. Currently has a wiseco piston that Hoser measured at 81.50. I can post up pics of the parts that I have if you still need them.
Thanks
Bob
Author:  Rppjr [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
hoser wrote:
Rppjr wrote:
Hoser I picked up a recoil basket, I can send it with the gaskets if you would like.
By raising the transfer ports, is there any benefit to doing this?
Does the rod appear to be a stock one or aftermarket?
Thanks
Bob



Yes send the recoil basket with the gaskets so I can install it here.

I sent a PM to adnoh gave him the link to this thread he understands changing the port timing better than I do will let him explain if he gets a chance.

They also machined the flywheel to make it lighter will post pics later.


I will put the parts in the mail today.(Vesrah complete gasket kit and the recoil basket). I am still waiting for the seller to contact me on the second set of gaskets.
Bob
Author:  Nuke Em [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Hi Bob,

What kind of setup are you building it for? Any pics of the pipes? Are they a torque or rev pipes? Stuffers help make great torque(bottom end pull on launches) and larger carbs 39MM+ are best for revs or high end runs. Clutching also is a player on upshifts. Not trying to tell you what to do but a stuffer limits or cancels some of the gains of the larger carb. 34/35MM carbs are the best on a torque Engine build...IMHO. Just pitching my input, hope I am not upsetting a plan or idea.

Also the longer rod setup of the Pilots are a better design/setup for torque engines, 350 Odyssey shorter rods make more RPMs thus a rev setup works best. Again, IMHO.

Gary
Author:  Rppjr [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Setup, to beat that 350-400 of yours. Lol. Seriously though I really only ride the dunes but had a blast at the last track event. The kid that had it before said it was fast and he ran the snot out of it. I will take some pics of the pipes for you. No names on them,
The one that is hand formed has a hole in it I need to get repaired. Both pipes where modified to exit the right side. No offense taken, when I was talking to you at dumont you where blowing me away with your knowledge of this stuff. Any input is welcome.
Bob
Author:  Nuke Em [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Adnoh, Mudbogger, Hoser, and a few others are the real scientists of the group. I am more of a shadetree mechanic(duct tape n bailing wire guy) LOL but I do know enough to make em run well on a shoe string budget.

First of all I have never owned a Pilot...as of yet, but I do know that a mainly dune setup will be a high rev setup,...fairly high stall clutch, rev pipe, larger carb with plenty of smooth clean air intake system, port work for more flow, light weight paddles w/ alum rims(Skat trak), etc. RPMs are the key ...tire speed! Any particular questions, just ask and I will give the best info I can.

I did a lot of testing back in the day with Feds 350 as a baseline. We would drag race, change reeds, jets, carbs,clutching, tires, etc and could tell what difference each change made at launch, mid drag or top end. Worked very well. Really hard to say from weekend to weekend by the seat of your pants what was changing.

Gary
Author:  Rppjr [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Here are pics of the two pipes. The rusty one hasn't been used for quite some time, it has a hole in it and the kid bought the second one, did some creative cutting and welding and came up with the setup it had on it when I picked it up from him. I would like to get the rusted or repaired and cleaned up to use and keep the other as a backup.

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Author:  Fatcat [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Why do people cut holes in pipes? The fmf I got with that quadzilla had a hole cut in it with a torch. Wtf is wrong with these people?
Author:  nitrosport_5 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Fatcat wrote:
Why do people cut holes in pipes? The fmf I got with that quadzilla had a hole cut in it with a torch. Wtf is wrong with these people?


Makes the pipe flow much better
Author:  mudbogger [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Nuke Em wrote:
Adnoh, Mudbogger, Hoser, and a few others are the real scientists of the group. I am more of a shadetree mechanic(duct tape n bailing wire guy) LOL but I do know enough to make em run well on a shoe string budget.

First of all I have never owned a Pilot...as of yet, but I do know that a mainly dune setup will be a high rev setup,...fairly high stall clutch, rev pipe, larger carb with plenty of smooth clean air intake system, port work for more flow, light weight paddles w/ alum rims(Skat trak), etc. RPMs are the key ...tire speed! Any particular questions, just ask and I will give the best info I can.

I did a lot of testing back in the day with Feds 350 as a baseline. We would drag race, change reeds, jets, carbs,clutching, tires, etc and could tell what difference each change made at launch, mid drag or top end. Worked very well. Really hard to say from weekend to weekend by the seat of your pants what was changing.

Gary


Thanks for the kind words sir! But I am like a ship with cargo that has no destination I believe! I prefer to use the powerblocs for my tuning to be honest-and a larger carb with stock cage no stuffer. I ran stuffers on some engines and never like the way the rpms matched up to the clutch IMHO-could never get the right balance. In my opinion you do not need all that ATVR horseshit-mabye try something like I have in LT Pilot and take the balancer out completely and run just a balanced crank. The rpms are really a step above stock(that's from Hoser, I have yet to ride it) :) or just go with a speed head, bump up the dome cc's-39PWK with a upgraded needle for rpms or top end, you get my drift here. NOW don't GHET ME WRONG THE SPACER, PORT TIMING CHANGES and LIGHTENING OF THE FLYWHEEL are also great mods 1 can do. I would wait for adnoh's numb ers to come through. That guy is a genius IMHO.
Author:  Nuke Em [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
don't want to hijack the thread but have a few questions about the balanced cranks. I probably should start a new thread with pictures. I think I will soon.

I know out of the race big bore 350 engines I have, some of the cranks are shaved down and have some holes drilled into the lobes. Are they for use without the counter balance gears and weight? I also have a shaved down stator, flywheels with extra hole (to lighten the weight?)...assume its all to lighten the kinetic moving assembly mass. I was told some can turn near 10,000 RPMs. Rusty had some info on the stuff, old age n beer doesnt help me remember everything. :-)
Author:  shoubadaba [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rppjr Pilot Engine CSI
Everything was done to save weight. It had nothing to do with running higher rpms. With the balancer in it will still turn that many rpms but with less rotating mass you can get there faster. And your Engine weighed 35 lbs less.
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