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Base gasket?
http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17751		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  canadian oddy [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Johnnyp23 wrote:
Is that good or bad. Reading the caliper i think its a 3.095


Read my statement above yours here :-)
Author:  canadian oddy [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
In my opinion fully called it.
Slam it back together with a metal base gasket and some red high temp silicone and call it a day.
You probably didn't do a pressure test BEFORE you took it apart so now you don't know if your seals are good on the crank. Put it together and pressure/vacuum test it.
Author:  Johnnyp23 [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Where all do i put the silicone?
Author:  fully [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
use very little, you don't need much, put a thin layer on the metal base gasket to help seal the cylinder
Author:  Johnnyp23 [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Top and bottom of the gasket?
Author:  fully [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
yes
Author:  canadian oddy [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
On a positive note here, that is a near new original cylinder.
That means you can (if you ever have to) bore it to 80mm - 80.5mm - 81mm - 81.5mm - 82mm which is the max. In other words that Engine will out live you no matter how old you are right now. You have five over bores left on that thing.
If you run AVGAS :-) or high octane gas that Engine will run forever.

A word of caution here. Nothing will save you if the Engine is not sealed (no leaks). That's why we pressure test them BEFORE we install them. Below is a pdf on pressure testing a two smoke.
Also the original intakes are as hard as the back of gods head now after 30+ years. They develop cracks just looking at them and that is a leak. Inspect yours very very close. When you pressure test, do it with that rubber intake on the Engine. Don't use a block off plate.

Attachments:
2 stroke pressure testing.pdf [314.03 KiB]
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Author:  Johnnyp23 [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Does it mean my rings are bad if I can compress them easily one way but if I flip them over they are much harder. I do realize the gap only goes in the one spot but don't know if rings are made different for one side up
Author:  canadian oddy [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Johnnyp23 wrote:
Does it mean my rings are bad if I can compress them easily one way but if I flip them over they are much harder. I do realize the gap only goes in the one spot but don't know if rings are made different for one side up


That don't sound right to me. The piston has pins in the ring lands. Are you sure you didn't accidently have the ring over one of those pins ??
Yes there are cases where rings should go only facing one way but I don't think that is the case with an oddy. And even if it was, it shouldN't make a difference on spring pressure.
Author:  Johnnyp23 [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
I think they are warped a little
Author:  canadian oddy [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
When you put it together, WATCH IT. The cylinder should slide down to the casing easily. NO HAMMERS.
What happens is the ring will slip out of its position and get hung up.
If the cylinder don't slide down easily that is your warning to pull it off and try again. Don't get rammy.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Johnnyp23 wrote:
I think they are warped a little


:shock: :shock: I find that hard to believe. Show me a picture - I call bull shyte.
Author:  Johnnyp23 [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Double and triple checked. Both top and bottom ring only fit good one way
Author:  Johnnyp23 [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Bullshyte you say. Lol

Attachments:
File comment: Wont go in all the way
20171119_200637.jpg
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File comment: Perfect fit i think
20171119_200452.jpg
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Author:  canadian oddy [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Johnnyp23 wrote:
Double and triple checked. Both top and bottom ring only fit good one way


Well maybe I just learned something new about these oddys.
I don't have much experience with an ART piston. I did own one at one time but it was on a parts Engine that I bought.
Put it together the way you feel is correct. Follow your instincts.
Author:  Johnnyp23 [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
One way spins freely the other way binds as i turn it
Author:  canadian oddy [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Earlier in this post I posted a link to two threads. When you get time please read them. There is some pics of two blown base gaskets and other info.

I also notice you are rebuilding and taking pics of this thing in your kitchen. Your wife is gona cut your balls off if you scratch the kitchen table up.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Your a new guy here so welcome.
Below is some important info. Dis-regard it at your own risk.
It was learned at great cost.
Here is my list of things to check on an oddy when you are doing an Engine job or bought one.

1) Fuel - your fuel pump must put out about 4.5 oz/ten seconds approx and your fuel must meet minimum octane rating in manual. I run straight avgas or you can mix it 50/50 with pump fuel.
2) Do the vent modification - use the search box above.
3) Check your stock intake manifold - they're 30yrs old and crack just looking at them.
4) Check your reeds, they must seal or you could get low compression reading on your gauge. Make sure your gauge is accurate.
5) Engine must pass pressure AND vacuum test - if it doesn't don't even start it, find the leak. I use 10psi max pressure and 10in vacuum in my tests and it must hold for half hour minimum.
6) Rebuild the starter, it is a big job after the Engine is in the machine.
7) Gas tank - if it's rusty inside get it cleaned and coated at a rad shop. If you look inside with a flashlight and it looks like the pickup tubes are rusted I would tap the tank drain plug and draw fuel from there. Both my machines are like that now.
8) Original fuel pump and vacuum lines are junk now after 30yrs so replace them.
9) Remove the drive shafts and make sure the u joints are good and grease the splines.
10) Check the wheel bearings.
11) Over fill the transmission -- put two quarts of oil in it. It's a splash lube system and the driven shaft bearing don't get any lube unless you are driving so don't rev it in the driveway all day long
12) Adjust your brakes - I set them (F & R) so I can feel a bit of drag.
13) If doing an Engine rebuild do NOT use the paper base gasket as it blows out. Must use the metal one.
14) Must build shock savers. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15745&hilit=shock+saver+chain
15) Replace the rear springs with 155lbs units. Stock ones are way to stiff.
16) Some good info here: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15392&hilit=danifold

And here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17468
Author:  Johnnyp23 [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Thanks CO and everyone else you've been a great help. Il keep ya posted on the improvements. Maybe we can go for a ride someday. I have a few friends in bellingham!
Author:  adnoh [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Oh my. The arts stock pistons have tapered rings. Refer to the manual for reference 6-7
Flat on bottom tapered on top.
Author:  Johnnyp23 [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Ok folks, I have an original fuel pump and was getting 1/4 cup every 10 seconds. If my math is correct that is 2oz. I bought a new mikuni pump and am still getting about 2oz. When i blow back down the pulse line i can tell a major difference piston positions but even when I presume the piston is all the way down I fill up my mouth with air and with pressure it bleeds off in a few seconds. Is that normal or do I have a leak somewhere? Thanks again for the help guys.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
Johnnyp23 wrote:
Ok folks, I have an original fuel pump and was getting 1/4 cup every 10 seconds. If my math is correct that is 2oz. I bought a new mikuni pump and am still getting about 2oz. When i blow back down the pulse line i can tell a major difference piston positions but even when I presume the piston is all the way down I fill up my mouth with air and with pressure it bleeds off in a few seconds. Is that normal or do I have a leak somewhere? Thanks again for the help guys.


1) You can try the pump test again by having the main line hooked to the carb and the return line pumping into the cup. I know one member here who had that same issue as you with a new pump and used the return line.
2) You might be real good a blowing but that don't work. Blow/Pressure test the correct way. :-)
Author:  Johnnyp23 [ Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
I found these rings. Do you think they would work?
https://www.ebay.com/i/122210645117?chn ... 5712551285
Author:  Johnnyp23 [ Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
The ring look identical

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Author:  canadian oddy [ Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Base gasket?
There is no way to tell if those rings are correct unless you are holding them in your hand.
Those egay pictures mean nothing. They could be pictures of anything just posted there.
Below is an item I got from the manual that adnoh was talking about earlier in this post about the rings.
Notice the taper that he was talking about.

Attachments:
Tapered rings.jpg
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