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afastcar LT ATVR Pilot FOX Shocks CSI
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Author:  hoser [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  afastcar LT ATVR Pilot FOX Shocks CSI
Here are some (FRONT) FOX shocks off a ATVR LT Pilot, they are old and weathered.

On the front shocks the shafts are pitted it looks like someone sprayed some sort of rust preventive on the shafts but its much too late.

These shocks measure 17.5 " center to center of the eyes, I washed them and they are drying I will post more pics later.

The shaft size is .500

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Author:  hoser [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here are some (REAR) FOX shocks off a ATVR LT Pilot.

Not sure yet if the shafts have any rust I need to clean the shafts and inspect closer once dry.

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Author:  hoser [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
The pitting on the front shaft is not as bad as it looked before cleaning up but the damage is still their, sooner or later the pitting (little holes in the shaft) will damage the seal, they will also fill with dirt and drag the dirt into the seal and maybe the inside of the shaft, they sometimes fill with oil and drag the oil out of the shock.

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Author:  hoser [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
The good side is the pitting is closer to the other end of the shocks travel so they might last years in the current condition it will depend how often you get that far into the travel.

It don't look like they are leaking so far.

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Author:  hoser [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Looking at the amount of sun fade on the anodized rez it looks like these shocks have spent years setting outside in the sun one rez is fades much more than the other, no doubt all this setting outside played a big part in the shafts pitting, the only shocks I have ever seen pit were on machines stored outside for a long time.

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Author:  hoser [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here is the rear shock after being cleaned it has some slight pitting too.

Its hard to see in the pics but the shaft looks bent to me.

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Author:  hoser [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here is the other REAR shock the shaft does not look bent.

Has some rust.

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Author:  Twilight [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hoser, if you do not mind. I made a strait line to see the bend more clearly. I can see it fairly well without.

Image
Author:  afastcar [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
can the shaft be straightened and re chromed? please say yes..................
Author:  hoser [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
afastcar wrote:
can the shaft be straightened and re chromed? please say yes..................


I am not sure you would have to call FOX and ask if they offer a re chrome service.

You have not driven this Pilot before?

What I would do before making any repairs to these shocks is try them first, maybe even run them until they are leaking good then decide what you want to do, hard telling what valving these shocks have in them it might be all wrong, I have yet to see a LT ATVR suspension 'work' like a suspension is suppose to, I need to make a video some day following a ATVR LT Pilot and a Drakart so I can show you what I mean, FL670 has both so perhaps I can make the video behind him.

Following a ATVR Pilot you seldom see the suspension cycle, it only cycles over large bumps, you watch the head of the driver and the flag as they drive and you can see the car is taking more of a beating than a guy in a stock Pilot your following, IMO this is wrong using only 2" out of the advertised 12" of suspension 99% of the time, when you follow a Drakart especially the Drakart with the FOX Air shocks their is a HUGE difference, you see the suspension cycle up and down as it should, the driver and car don't take a beating, the ride even looks way more plush.

The bend on the one rear shock is slight, I doubt it will hurt anything but the seal and the bushing inside, I see no abnormal wear on the shaft as if its trying to bind, the bend more at the end so unless your using the full stroke of the shock I doubt it will matter, eye balling the bend I would say it will take 3/4 stroke of the shock to get to the bent area, the same goes with the rust its 3/4 the way into the stroke of the shaft.

I know your missing an axle was this Pilot damaged in the rear, you think that's how the shock was bent, another way to bend shocks is by a huge bonzi jump, the shock internals cant react fast enough and the shaft then bends under the compression.
Author:  afastcar [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
we have never rode this pilot just fired it up for a few seconds.

it was missing the rear axle i don't know what happened but the suspension was fine so i think it broke, or it lost a boot and they took it out to fix it and never finished the job.


Hoser, also it is missing one of the spacers on the rear shocks we are having trouble finding a replacement could you make one?
Author:  hoser [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
afastcar wrote:
we have never rode this pilot just fired it up for a few seconds.

it was missing the rear axle i don't know what happened but the suspension was fine so i think it broke, or it lost a boot and they took it out to fix it and never finished the job.


Hoser, also it is missing one of the spacers on the rear shocks we are having trouble finding a replacement could you make one?


What spacer is it missing I didnt notice, can you point to it in a picture?
Author:  afastcar [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
hoser wrote:
afastcar wrote:
we have never rode this pilot just fired it up for a few seconds.

it was missing the rear axle i don't know what happened but the suspension was fine so i think it broke, or it lost a boot and they took it out to fix it and never finished the job.


Hoser, also it is missing one of the spacers on the rear shocks we are having trouble finding a replacement could you make one?


What spacer is it missing I didnt notice, can you point to it in a picture?



the upper mount to the frame on each side of the shock eye is a spacer, one is missing, its a stepped spacer to go in the shock eye then to the frame.
Author:  afastcar [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
in this pic you can see them on the bottom they are wire tied in, they are the same on the top

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Author:  afastcar [ Sun May 04, 2008 12:31 am ]
Post subject: 
got the 500 all set up today, the shocks are way to stiff, with two 190lbs guys jumping on the back all we could get it to travel was about 3 1/2" its way to stiff, it has double stacked 12" coils on it only one spring has a tag on it its one of the bottom springs its a 185 im guessing the other bottom is the same, i wonder what the tops are?
Author:  hoser [ Sun May 04, 2008 7:19 am ]
Post subject: 
afastcar wrote:
got the 500 all set up today, the shocks are way to stiff, with two 190lbs guys jumping on the back all we could get it to travel was about 3 1/2" its way to stiff, it has double stacked 12" coils on it only one spring has a tag on it its one of the bottom springs its a 185 im guessing the other bottom is the same, i wonder what the tops are?


You can measure the springs and count the coils and get the spring rate, they have calculators here http://www.swayaway.com/TechRoom.php The springs on the rear all looked the same to me.

I am not surprised to hear its stiff I have never seen a ATVR suspension that really worked, I guess its what you consider working? You can follow one of their setups all day over rough terrain and they don't use 1/4 of the travel , the whole Pilot shutters as it rolls over ruts and small bumps other Pilots soak up, I would start asking other LT owners what spring rates they are using.

You will also notice their suspension setup has no progression or rising rate as the suspension compresses, FOX should be able to help you with the spring rate setup?
Author:  bugeye59 [ Sun May 04, 2008 9:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Mine has a very soft,plush ride.
TOO soft methinks...It does bottom out with medium to big jumps.150psi.
Even when I went to Harvey Speedway,the Pilot bottomed on the jump there.
I'll take Coil pics and measurements of it tomorrow if you want?
Author:  hoser [ Sun May 04, 2008 9:50 am ]
Post subject: 
More info
http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/spring.shtml
Author:  afastcar [ Sun May 04, 2008 11:12 am ]
Post subject: 
hoser wrote:
afastcar wrote:
got the 500 all set up today, the shocks are way to stiff, with two 190lbs guys jumping on the back all we could get it to travel was about 3 1/2" its way to stiff, it has double stacked 12" coils on it only one spring has a tag on it its one of the bottom springs its a 185 im guessing the other bottom is the same, i wonder what the tops are?


You can measure the springs and count the coils and get the spring rate, they have calculators here http://www.swayaway.com/TechRoom.php The springs on the rear all looked the same to me.

I am not surprised to hear its stiff I have never seen a ATVR suspension that really worked, I guess its what you consider working? You can follow one of their setups all day over rough terrain and they don't use 1/4 of the travel , the whole Pilot shutters as it rolls over ruts and small bumps other Pilots soak up, I would start asking other LT owners what spring rates they are using.

You will also notice their suspension setup has no progression or rising rate as the suspension compresses, FOX should be able to help you with the spring rate setup?


I know you can measure the rate by counting the coils and measuring the diameter of the wire, but this just gets you ballpark each spring is a little different and after time a spring will start to sag and coil bind the only true way to rate a spring is with a spring rate checker, essentially it is just a jack with a gauge and a tape measure, you jack presser on the spring untill the gauge just moves and then jack 1 inch into it and read the gauge, in racing we would write these measurement down and keep track of the springs each week to catch a bad spring before it let you down (no pun intended), just like how you tell us to watch the compression of the Engine.

since i quit racing i sold everything, so i wouldn't be tempted to get back in...... now im sucked in to the Pilot world, oh well its a blast and helps tame my itch to race........

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Author:  afastcar [ Sun May 04, 2008 11:14 am ]
Post subject: 
bugeye59 wrote:
Mine has a very soft,plush ride.
TOO soft methinks...It does bottom out with medium to big jumps.150psi.
Even when I went to Harvey Speedway,the Pilot bottomed on the jump there.
I'll take Coil pics and measurements of it tomorrow if you want?


sure i will take all the info i can get.
Author:  afastcar [ Sun May 04, 2008 1:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
will some one enlighten me? i have never run stacked springs before how is it when you stack a 200 pound spring and a 200 pound spring it equals a 100 pound spring? is that just for the first inch of travel? it has to get stiffer farther down in travel right? so if you stacked two 50 pound springs it would equal 0 pounds? i don't get it.........
Author:  hoser [ Sun May 04, 2008 1:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
afastcar wrote:
will some one enlighten me? i have never run stacked springs before how is it when you stack a 200 pound spring and a 200 pound spring it equals a 100 pound spring? is that just for the first inch of travel? it has to get stiffer farther down in travel right? so if you stacked two 50 pound springs it would equal 0 pounds? i don't get it.........


I am no expert but from what I understand their is suppose to be a cross over so once you exceed the max spring rate of the first spring the second stronger spring kicks in you also can adjust the cross over point. I never bothered to read , study and learn all the tips and tricks on the shock springs simply because I don't have anything that uses that type of setup. I also have ignored most the info given on the PO boards about the ATVR LT setups simply because none of them I have seen in use worked very well, if they were mine I would be talking to FOX direct, tell them what you have, what you see, I am sure they have suspension calculators like sway-a-way has and set you up.

Your description of their performance so far is right in line with what I have seen on every LT Piot, WAY TOO stiff at ride height. I bet after you jump it a few times you will be amazed how easily you can bottom it out, IMO its because the spring rate does not rise enough as it gets closer to the end of the stroke.

I think Pilotman had changed the rear springs on his ATVR LT you might see what spring rate they are...

Every spring should have a tag on it like you found so other LT Pilot owners should be able to give you spring rate numbers.
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