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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7709
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I actually like that air box because I can see what you were trying to do there.
But I see a problem with it. I don't think it was supplying enough air with that set up the way it is. It seems way to restrictive to me but maybe others can chime in and correct me.

That carb: I think I remember seeing it here in another thread. We talked about it and if I remember right, never really came to a conclusion. Not sure now as it was a while ago. Unless you got info on it then you may be chasing your tail.
That's a Boyesen super bowl on there I believe. It has a curved interior which turns fuel in on itself, preventing internal splashing/foaming. That's the theory anyways.
CO


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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 11:51 pm 
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Posts: 7709
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
That air box set up:

I think it was way to restrictive in my opinion and that Engine struggled to breath at WOT (Wide Open Throttle).
Here is why (I am being generous here with the numbers):
You got a 500cc Engine that spins 8500 rpm.
So that's 500 x 8500 = 4250000 cc of air.
That's 150 cu ft per minute of air needed.

No goddamn way are you pulling 150 ft through that set up.
I think that was the sputter we heard on that video.

I may be wrong here so feel free to shoot at me but you better show the math.

Even if you did plug chops you would have had to jet down to get there.
CO


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
canadian oddy wrote:
That air box set up:

I think it was way to restrictive in my opinion and that Engine struggled to breath at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) (Wide Open Throttle).
Here is why (I am being generous here with the numbers):
You got a 500cc Engine that spins 8500 rpm.
So that's 500 x 8500 = 4250000 cc of air.
That's 150 cu ft per minute of air needed.

No goddamn way are you pulling 150 ft through that set up.
I think that was the sputter we heard on that video.

I may be wrong here so feel free to shoot at me but you better show the math.

Even if you did plug chops you would have had to jet down to get there.
CO


CO you could be right.Pilot was just running uni right off of carb when I got it,I wanted it protected better from water so I built that,it’s been 4 years ago and my memory is shit but I think I had to rejet it at that time to get it to run right. It’s been that way since then with no problems and ran that way at LS before with only difference being as mentioned before (the pipe)
I would always start with lid on and if I felt that it wasn’t running right I removed the lid


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
canadian oddy wrote:
I actually like that air box because I can see what you were trying to do there.
But I see a problem with it. I don't think it was supplying enough air with that set up the way it is. It seems way to restrictive to me but maybe others can chime in and correct me.

That carb: I think I remember seeing it here in another thread. We talked about it and if I remember right, never really came to a conclusion. Not sure now as it was a while ago. Unless you got info on it then you may be chasing your tail.
That's a Boyesen super bowl on there I believe. It has a curved interior which turns fuel in on itself, preventing internal splashing/foaming. That's the theory anyways.
CO


I find nothing when googling the numbers on that carb.ID on intake side measures 39 or 40 mms,I think this HF caliper I picked up is a little bent for measuring ID.I might switch out this carb to a PWK 39 mm airstriker,I’m tired of this one leaking


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:33 am
Posts: 1070
PWK72R IS a PWK39. Nice fuel bowl you got there; if it fits


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
ZeroClient wrote:
PWK72R IS a PWK39. Nice fuel bowl you got there; if it fits


Lol,I guess I should have said a different one :shock:


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 1779
Location: Ma
I like the air box... can’t say if it flows enough air or not for certain but if it ran well before, it likely does in certain conditions at least. I can tell you that I had a “modified” banshee that was a beast and one day after preparing for a ride I rolled it off the trailer and putted off to the sand pit through the trails to warm her... one problem, it just wouldn’t rev... after a lot of frustration it turned out it was a different oil I used on the filter.... swapped it out and all was right in the world. Two strokes are particular, some might say picky.
Have you changed air filter or oil recently?


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
go oddy wrote:
I like the air box... can’t say if it flows enough air or not for certain but if it ran well before, it likely does in certain conditions at least. I can tell you that I had a “modified” banshee that was a beast and one day after preparing for a ride I rolled it off the trailer and putted off to the sand pit through the trails to warm her... one problem, it just wouldn’t rev... after a lot of frustration it turned out it was a different oil I used on the filter.... swapped it out and all was right in the world. Two strokes are particular, some might say picky.
Have you changed air filter or oil recently?


No,same filter and oil.Both were cleaned and than oiled for this ride.I do however have new one ordered that has the red outer filter on the outside


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Bought a couple of containers today to try and make bigger airbox but that bar going across is in the way,any reason why I shouldn’t cut that bar off?
Yes I would guess that is a Boyesen super bowl,I never even noticed it was special before :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7709
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
redskinman wrote:
Bought a couple of containers today to try and make bigger airbox


There is nothing wrong with the size of that airbox.

The problem is those filters. They look like something you cut off an old mattress.
They look very restrictive to me. The foam looks damaged and collapsed.
The other problem I see there is that top prefilter. It looks way to small and in fact I think you need at least two of them to supply enough air. The way I see that set up right now is that the Engine must pull air through two very restrictive filters to get any breathing at all. That's just not gona happen. It just looks like bad engineering to me. There is no flow rate there the way it is.
If it was me I would be running two K&N flyscreen filters on top with no socks and then on the inside I would run the K&N with a sock.
I am by no means an air flow engineer but member DMoneyAllstar is. He works for those companies. Unfortunately he don't come here very often anymore and has not been on since last month. He would be the guy to ask. If I remember right he did do a thread on how much air an FL350 and an FL400 flows.
Just my opinion.
CO


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
if I read this properly you said your first ride out was with the air box on and it ran good. then you took it off for the rest of the riding that you did. that would of leaned out your jetting..I have been trying to dial my Oddy in and with a 39mm pwk same as yours I was at a 230 main jet and still lean at WFO, with my air box lid off. I have since started over and put the air box lid back on, and I have dropped to 185 main.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3621
Location: Wichita ks
Redskin man, I did some math on filter sizes for you.
Spare every one the head ace (math).
If you have a 2" hole the filter height would be 5.5 inches tall.
If 3" hole 4.16 tall.
These are the minium for you primary filter. For secondary add 1.25 for height. Or second filter with adaqaute square inches.

If you want I'll post the math.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3621
Location: Wichita ks
Forgot , your Engine needs about 12.44 square inches of area for effective filter area.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
adnoh wrote:
Redskin man, I did some math on filter sizes for you.
Spare every one the head ace (math).
If you have a 2" hole the filter height would be 5.5 inches tall.
If 3" hole 4.16 tall.
These are the minium for you primary filter. For secondary add 1.25 for height. Or second filter with adaqaute square inches.

If you want I'll post the math.

Ok thanks
I am going to cut out that small bar and add a bigger airbox when I get this Engine put back together


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
fully wrote:
if I read this properly you said your first ride out was with the air box on and it ran good. then you took it off for the rest of the riding that you did. that would of leaned out your jetting..I have been trying to dial my Oddy in and with a 39mm pwk same as yours I was at a 230 main jet and still lean at WFO, with my air box lid off. I have since started over and put the air box lid back on, and I have dropped to 185 main.


Yes that is correct and that could have been problem,I’ve done this so many times before with no problems that I didn’t give it a second thought


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 5:50 pm 
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Posts: 3496
Location: houston
fully wrote:
if I read this properly you said your first ride out was with the air box on and it ran good. then you took it off for the rest of the riding that you did. that would of leaned out your jetting..I have been trying to dial my Oddy in and with a 39mm pwk same as yours I was at a 230 main jet and still lean at WFO, with my air box lid off. I have since started over and put the air box lid back on, and I have dropped to 185 main.


My jet sizes
I have ordered 2 chinese keihin knockoffs I’m going to try if I can ever find someone to bore jug.
A 38 and a 40 mm pwk


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:53 am
Posts: 1432
Location: Norco, CA
I would suggest going to your local MC shop and getting genuine Keihin jets, the knockoffs will work but it's better to actually know what you are dealing with, I've heard stories that they may not be as advertised so thinking you are gong up a jet size may have really gone down.


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 10:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
ZeroClient wrote:
It looks like the top ring may have rotated past the locator pins? Take the bottom ring off the piston and push it into the cylinder. Measure ring-end-gap and post back.

Also measure your current piston-to-cylinder wall clearance. I'd say if the clearance is <8thou you might get away with a new piston and just a hone, but is doubtful. Think about your piston costs, hone costs, and consider going to 90mm. BTW on a CR500 sleeve you should be able to get all the way out to 91mm on Wiseco. that's a lot of bores/years.

Finally on your O-Rings. This one is easy.

The inner O-Ring you should use measure the diameter of the slot on the dome, and the thickness of the slot. You can refer to various sized O-Rings at http://www.mcmaster.com. You want to be very careful with your selection however, because with the heat I would highly suggest you get Viton O-Rings for chemical and temperature resistance. Look here:
https://www.mcmaster.com/viton-fluoroelastomer-o-rings

The outer O-Ring is going to be EASY. Either you can try to lay it out and measure the diameter, ordering O-Rings 3 times, which isn't a bad idea... OR, McMaster sells O-Ring cord stock where you can make your own O-Rings. Look here:
https://www.mcmaster.com/viton-fluoroelastomer-o-rings
All you need is the diameter, and then cut the O_Ring to length. I'd use Permatex Water Pump and Thermostat RTV at the joining end to attach the O-Ring back onto itself. Clean cut the ends with a razor blade. Hell; I'd use that stuff to dress the entire O-Ring honestly. Let it dry for a few days before coolant is added. This is how we do it with large 2-cylinder JetSki heads with the outer o-ring.


Back from vacation and starting to get back to working on this .The outer ring on the dome does not look like a O-ring it is flat, while the inner ring is still round like an O- ring,Does this matter? HAs the outer ring just flattened over time? Also,it is measuring 2mm wide in its flattened condition,what size should I order? Inner o ring is measuring 2.6 mm
They both look like they are reusable, although the outer ring did have a small break in it.
I am guessing when I order gaskets I need to order two base gaskets, because I need to go ahead and replace the one on the bottom of the plate also?
I am still looking for someone to work on the cylinder :shock:


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File comment: Gasket under this plate need to be replaced? 99.9 percent Sure it does but just making sure
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 11:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Zeroclient you are so wanted to know the ring gap, with the ring inside the cylinder it looks like the gap is 2.88 mm,Do you know what it should be? You also wanted piston clearance, looks like I do not have a measuring gauge to do that, I had one before but I don’t know where it is now.
With the piston back in the cylinder or you can see the damage on the piston happened in the same place where I felt it was snagging on cylinder wall,Does not feel like it is snagging now but I have already Cleaned up that port and smoothed it out,Red mark indicates where the lip was rough before I smoothed it,I think I posted a picture of it earlier before I smoothed it out.Some of these other port holes have edges that are very sharp feeling with my finger, while the other sides feel pretty smooth,Should I go ahead and try to smooth out those edges also?

Edit
Since I have never checked piston to cylinder clearance before Im probably not doing this right so you can let me know,I could squeeze the next size up in there which was .011 or .279 mm


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 11:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
I have a bout an hour of welding experience, as you can tell by my gorilla ugly welds on this pipe.
I’ve seen the commercial for those aluminum welding rods, I am guessing if I used one of those on that pipe it would just get so hot that that weld would just melt and go everywhere? I thought maybe those welding rods had some properties in them that after they were melted onto the object that may be that changed their melting temperature and it would have to be hotter to melt it the second time?


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7709
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
:shock: Well now I gota comment.

Lets start with the deadliest one first.
You have a paper base gasket there. That's a huge NO NO.
It MUST be metal or it will blow out.

Next item.
redskinman wrote:
I have a bout an hour of welding experience, as you can tell by my gorilla ugly welds on this pipe.
I’ve seen the commercial for those aluminum welding rods, I am guessing if I used one of those on that pipe it would just get so hot that that weld would just melt and go everywhere? I thought maybe those welding rods had some properties in them that after they were melted onto the object that may be that changed their melting temperature and it would have to be hotter to melt it the second time?

I am not sure if I just read this right but did you try to weld that pipe with an aluminum welding rod :shock: ??
Firstly you can't weld iron pipe with aluminum rod LOL. It don't work that way.
Secondly those aluminum welding rods are complete junk so don't waste your money. You need a proper welder for any aluminum welding.
Third you need a wire welder to weld that pipe because stick welding is way to hot and will blow a hole.
CO


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
canadian oddy wrote:
:shock: Well now I gota comment.

Lets start with the deadliest one first.
You have a paper base gasket there. That's a huge NO NO.
It MUST be metal or it will blow out.

Next item.
redskinman wrote:
I have a bout an hour of welding experience, as you can tell by my gorilla ugly welds on this pipe.
I’ve seen the commercial for those aluminum welding rods, I am guessing if I used one of those on that pipe it would just get so hot that that weld would just melt and go everywhere? I thought maybe those welding rods had some properties in them that after they were melted onto the object that may be that changed their melting temperature and it would have to be hotter to melt it the second time?

I am not sure if I just read this right but did you try to weld that pipe with an aluminum welding rod :shock: ??
Firstly you can't weld iron pipe with aluminum rod LOL. It don't work that way.
Secondly those aluminum welding rods are complete junk so don't waste your money. You need a proper welder for any aluminum welding.
Third you need a wire welder to weld that pipe because stick welding is way to hot and will blow a hole.
CO


I will have to go back through original Hoser csi on my Engine, I know I had to send speed chaser my crank to rebuild and I remember hoser asking me To get some gaskets from speech chaser for it so I don’t know why he would not have put them on.I don’t see any sellers on eBay selling metal gaskets,From what I remember speed chaser was the only one who did it.
Yes you read that wrong, those are my gorilla welds on the pipe using a wire feed welder, but I would like for them to be better, and the commercial for those welding rods make it look so easy and smooth I was wondering if those would work so you answered that question


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
canadian oddy wrote:
:shock: Well now I gota comment.

Lets start with the deadliest one first.
You have a paper base gasket there. That's a huge NO NO.
It MUST be metal or it will blow out.


Next item.
redskinman wrote:
I have a bout an hour of welding experience, as you can tell by my gorilla ugly welds on this pipe.
I’ve seen the commercial for those aluminum welding rods, I am guessing if I used one of those on that pipe it would just get so hot that that weld would just melt and go everywhere? I thought maybe those welding rods had some properties in them that after they were melted onto the object that may be that changed their melting temperature and it would have to be hotter to melt it the second time?

I am not sure if I just read this right but did you try to weld that pipe with an aluminum welding rod :shock: ??
Firstly you can't weld iron pipe with aluminum rod LOL. It don't work that way.
Secondly those aluminum welding rods are complete junk so don't waste your money. You need a proper welder for any aluminum welding.
Third you need a wire welder to weld that pipe because stick welding is way to hot and will blow a hole.
CO


On my old csi thread I could not find out if speedchaser sent gaskets or not,and now I'm starting to question myself on my memory,but as I am typing this I received a call from a guy in cali that says he's a 2 stroke specialist and has been working on pilots for years.He had a bottom end on ebay I had contacted him about.He says the base gaskets are paper,even from Honda they were paper,so CO I think you might be confusing the base gasket with the cylinder head gasket.I just got in a Vesrah gasket set{which from what I hear are the best aftermarket gasket makers}it's base gasket is paper but the head gasket is metal.
Edit:
I just heard back from speedchaser and he never made a metal base gasket for the FL 400 either,just the 350


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Kuma wrote:
I would suggest going to your local MC shop and getting genuine Keihin jets, the knockoffs will work but it's better to actually know what you are dealing with, I've heard stories that they may not be as advertised so thinking you are gong up a jet size may have really gone down.

ok thanks :-)


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 888
Hoser redid the Engine in my triple e. It had a spacer plate as well and all we used were the paper gaskets. One on each side, I remember well because I had to buy a whole other kit for the one Base gasket. I believe it was the Vesrah brand.
Bob


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