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 Post subject: jetting questions
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I am picking up my newly rebuilt 350 next week and have some rookie questions. I have read some of the tips in the jetting section. I am just wanting verification on some things since I have blonde hair. LoL
I bought a Klemm research airbox on flea bay. I have not decided if I want to use that, or the stock setup. I have also wondered about removing the airbox all together to make access to the carb easier???
Dialing in the pilot circuit... on my four stroke I just kept dropping jet sizes till I got rid of Black powdered plug. then closed the air screw till flubbered tthen back up 1/4 turn and was good to go. Do I do the same on these two strokes??? I seem to think I had to have the rpm's up to 1700 to do this???.
Pipe will be reused but I will get a USFS spark arrestor FMF. What is the sealant used to seal the joints, that is left to dry overnight? I can't find the post I read this on???
I will need to do this before I rejet...
Once I get this jetted in I will install a Dial a Jet. I haul heavy equipment all over the soutthwest U.S and am ssure thiss will help out a bunch in the different places I wwant to ride. today i am in Denver wednessday I was in Los Angeles Monday in Utah. Some times I might have to wait a day or two to load so I have bought the buggy to entertain me!!! I have used the dial a jet in my little 4 stroke and liked it, just wanted to know if anyone has used in a 350 and what kinda results you are having???
Any and all advise is greatly appreciated

Sorry so long winded on my first post...
david


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
Hi, welcome to the site.

Nice looking 350, have you read the jetting info on the jetting page? http://pilotodyssey.com/jetting1.htm

The silicone sealer link http://pilotodyssey.com/silconesealer.htm

Do you have any pics of the Klemm research air box ?

Do you have a round or oval silencer on your pipe?

Complaints I have heard about the dial a jet when used in a dusty environment is the hole getting plugged up even when used with the off road filter kit who knows by now maybe they have the seal where the kit attaches to the dial a jet perfected.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Here are ssome pictures of my flea-bay find...
I haven't had a problem with the dial a jet on my cheapo chinese cart. seal seems to work well...
I will hunt down the silicone at the autoparts store. need to get a range of jet sizes, who is best stocked on these???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
Here are ssome pictures of my flea-bay find...
I haven't had a problem with the dial a jet on my cheapo chinese cart. seal seems to work well...
I will hunt down the silicone at the autoparts store. need to get a range of jet sizes, who is best stocked on these???


I would start out with that air box over using the stock one I would also put some foam filter material over the opening as a pre filter I bought bulk UNI foam for other projects in the past http://www.unifilter.com/index.html

As for jets do a search around the web.

If your already jetted for your current modifications I doubt you will have to make that much of a jetting change for the air box mod unless you were running on the lean side before?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:25 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I can't tell if I was lean or not... I think my Engine went poof-kaboom because the plug threads in the head were stripped and my plug came loose allowing more air in???
I will use the new airbox I know it will increase power...
I haave seen some uuse no airbox, just a uni and cover... I am wondering how this is working out???


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 Post subject: 350 airbox
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:58 pm
Posts: 357
Location: Wichita, Ks.
Turbotexas wrote:
I can't tell if I was lean or not... I think my Engine went poof-kaboom because the plug threads in the head were stripped and my plug came loose allowing more air in???
I will use the new airbox I know it will increase power...
I haave seen some uuse no airbox, just a uni and cover... I am wondering how this is working out???


I've seen a few run unboxed but your pulling heated air off the Engine this way and filters get dirty faster.

I have the dual air tube mod. done to the lower air box with a Outterware over Uni and have run mine occasionally with the lid off for periods when I needed to run one jet size leaner. The only problem is the lower box will collect debris.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
I can't tell if I was lean or not... I think my Engine went poof-kaboom because the plug threads in the head were stripped and my plug came loose allowing more air in???
I will use the new airbox I know it will increase power...
I haave seen some uuse no airbox, just a uni and cover... I am wondering how this is working out???


I guess the stripped plug could allow it to suck air, have pics of the old piston?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Per your request...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
That does not look good at all, a loose spark plug didn't cause that, any idea what happen?

What piston to cylinder clearance was this Engine setup for?

My guess is you exceeded the cycle life of the piston, without having the parts in my hand I would assume the piston was rocking excessively in the bore then the piston cracked, the cracks ran up to the wrist pin area (seen this before) then eventually let go, alot of people put extra piston to cylinder clearance when using a wiseco because they are scared they will sieze up.

Can you read the markings on the top of the piston to see what size it is?

Can you measure the current bore to see what size it is, knowing the as found piston to cylinder clearance would be helpful.

I would rebuild the whole bottom end including the rod, all the bearings have seen punishment they will not recover from.

I would ensure the new piston to cylinder clearance was correct and to the wiseco spec, not some shade tree mechanic spec. Wiseco has been building pistons for 40? years I would follow their advice...

Once you get this thing running again plan on doing routine inspections checking for cracks, at least once a year, I would not exceed 40 hrs run time, use the Honda gaskets if you can...

If your not going to rebuild yourself I would send it to Triple E 1-800-763-3762 Toll FREE Ed has been wrenching on 350's since they came out.


Good luck with a fresh Engine top and bottom you should enjoy that Engine for years to come, I would mount a 12v electric fan in front of the Engine so it has the 20 mph breeze on it at all times, you can split the distance in hieght so the head and cylinder both get plenty of air also drop back to 20:1 oil to gas ratio.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
the history I have on this ody is that a guy going by throttle built it and sold to the guy I bought from two years later. So I guess you are right about the age of the piston... I have sent it off to ATVR in Phoenix. I choose them because I am in that part of the country all the time...
It actually had a fan but it is blowing on the top only. I will move to the front as this makes good sense
Eventually I will do the water cooled head but for now I want to get it up and running.
Are you suggesting that i replace the piston every 40 hours???
Thanks
David

hoser wrote:
That does not look good at all, a loose spark plug didn't cause that, any idea what happen?

What piston to cylinder clearance was this Engine setup for?

My guess is you exceeded the cycle life of the piston, without having the parts in my hand I would assume the piston was rocking excessively in the bore then the piston cracked, the cracks ran up to the wrist pin area (seen this before) then eventually let go, alot of people put extra piston to cylinder clearance when using a wiseco because they are scared they will sieze up.

Can you read the markings on the top of the piston to see what size it is?

Can you measure the current bore to see what size it is, knowing the as found piston to cylinder clearance would be helpful.

I would rebuild the whole bottom end including the rod, all the bearings have seen punishment they will not recover from.

I would ensure the new piston to cylinder clearance was correct and to the wiseco spec, not some shade tree mechanic spec. Wiseco has been building pistons for 40? years I would follow their advice...

Once you get this thing running again plan on doing routine inspections checking for cracks, at least once a year, I would not exceed 40 hrs run time, use the Honda gaskets if you can...

If your not going to rebuild yourself I would send it to Triple E 1-800-763-3762 Toll FREE Ed has been wrenching on 350's since they came out.


Good luck with a fresh Engine top and bottom you should enjoy that Engine for years to come, I would mount a 12v electric fan in front of the Engine so it has the 20 mph breeze on it at all times, you can split the distance in hieght so the head and cylinder both get plenty of air also drop back to 20:1 oil to gas ratio.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
the history I have on this ody is that a guy going by throttle built it and sold to the guy I bought from two years later. So I guess you are right about the age of the piston... I have sent it off to ATVR in Phoenix. I choose them because I am in that part of the country all the time...
It actually had a fan but it is blowing on the top only. I will move to the front as this makes good sense
Eventually I will do the water cooled head but for now I want to get it up and running.
Are you suggesting that i replace the piston every 40 hours???
Thanks
David

hoser wrote:
That does not look good at all, a loose spark plug didn't cause that, any idea what happen?

What piston to cylinder clearance was this Engine setup for?

My guess is you exceeded the cycle life of the piston, without having the parts in my hand I would assume the piston was rocking excessively in the bore then the piston cracked, the cracks ran up to the wrist pin area (seen this before) then eventually let go, alot of people put extra piston to cylinder clearance when using a wiseco because they are scared they will sieze up.

Can you read the markings on the top of the piston to see what size it is?

Can you measure the current bore to see what size it is, knowing the as found piston to cylinder clearance would be helpful.

I would rebuild the whole bottom end including the rod, all the bearings have seen punishment they will not recover from.

I would ensure the new piston to cylinder clearance was correct and to the wiseco spec, not some shade tree mechanic spec. Wiseco has been building pistons for 40? years I would follow their advice...

Once you get this thing running again plan on doing routine inspections checking for cracks, at least once a year, I would not exceed 40 hrs run time, use the Honda gaskets if you can...

If your not going to rebuild yourself I would send it to Triple E 1-800-763-3762 Toll FREE Ed has been wrenching on 350's since they came out.


Good luck with a fresh Engine top and bottom you should enjoy that Engine for years to come, I would mount a 12v electric fan in front of the Engine so it has the 20 mph breeze on it at all times, you can split the distance in hieght so the head and cylinder both get plenty of air also drop back to 20:1 oil to gas ratio.


I am suggesting you check it about every 40 hrs, inspect it close for cracks and measure the wear as outlined in the service manual, the wear usually indicates when to change them, I have found 2 Pilot enignes ATVR worked on with HUGE piston to cylinder clearances one was .008 and the other was .010 I wouldn't let them bore my garbage can they clearly have indicated to me they have no clue, nobody in their right minds installs a piston with that much clearance, if they havent bored it yet I would send the cylinder to WISECO and have them bore it, its the piston rocking in the excessive clearances that hurts everything including power..

I have a feeling the guy doing the bore thinks that .004 clearance means .004 on each side of the piston so ends up with .008 clearance, .004 clearance means the finish hole should be .004 less than the biggest OD size found on the piston or .002 each side of the piston, I don't know what else they could be thinking that would make them install TWO TIMES the required clearance, if they ground the crank shaft on a car Engine with 2x the clearance all the rods would be knocking when you started it up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
well all I can do is keep my fingers crossed. I will find out how they bored it, then I will know what pistons to get for next go around. i stiill need to get an air leak tester, and some more basic tools for these ody's.
How well does the jetting tool chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts MS sells work???
I have arhritic wrists and found it very difficult to reach into the space to get to the airbox/carb area...
Someone suggested cutting a wrench in half works as well???
david


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