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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:40 am
Posts: 89
Location: Chesterfield/Dinwiddie Virginia
Well my $1500 Pilot is about to cost me much more money. I was riding my pilot for about 30 minutes on my parents farm land when all of a sudden I started loosing power. I stopped and the Engine shut off. After it cooled off I tried to restart it but it was frozen up. I pulled the head and cylinder off thinking that it was a bad piston seizure, but it turned out to be the rod bearing on the big end. You can see the discoloration from the heat buildup. I could also see some pitting on the head, but the top of the piston looked good. it does not look like the cylinder was hurt even though I can see where something snagged the side of the piston near the lower ring. I can rock the crank back and forth so the crank bearings should not be frozen. I will try to get some pics tomorrow in the day light.

For now I will be needing some advise on who to send my motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) off to for repair. I will start asking around for local repair shops, but I don't mind spending a few extra dollars to ship it off to a shop or person that will not screw me over. I will also be considering spending the extra money for a few more HP after I get the bottom end fixed.

Please help with some advise, but in the mean time I will try to use the "search" feature to learn as much as possible about bottom end bearing failures.

Thanks
Jeff


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
I know the feeling and it sux, it happens fast and without warning.

Do some reading here http://pilotodyssey.com/CSI.htm you can learn a lot about Engine failures and their repairs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 2243
I am going through it right now myself. The lower rod bearing let go while my son was riding the 420/350. He said it just ran out of gas...not! The bearing cage is mostly shrapnell in the top of the piston and head now. Very minor scratches on the sleeve and they mostly came out with the hone job. I just happened to have bought a good crank/rod from Ebay(thank god) and also had another 88.50 YZ490 piston that I worked to make it more balanced.

I did run into a snag with the Wiseco piston kit. They put the wrong rings into the kit. The rings baggy is properly labled for the kit but definately have the wrong rings inside the bag. The old ones are .047", the new ones are .058" and the piston grooves are .048". The new ones ring end gap is also .035"! I emailed Wiseco and the Ebay store seller this weekend. We'll see what they say.

Gary


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Nuke Em wrote:
I am going through it right now myself. The lower rod bearing let go while my son was riding the 420/350. He said it just ran out of gas...not! The bearing cage is mostly shrapnell in the top of the piston and head now. Very minor scratches on the sleeve and they mostly came out with the hone job. I just happened to have bought a good crank/rod from Ebay(thank god) and also had another 88.50 YZ490 piston that I worked to make it more balanced.

I did run into a snag with the Wiseco piston kit. They put the wrong rings into the kit. The rings baggy is properly labled for the kit but definately have the wrong rings inside the bag. The old ones are .047", the new ones are .058" and the piston grooves are .048". The new ones ring end gap is also .035"! I emailed Wiseco and the Ebay store seller this weekend. We'll see what they say.

Gary


That sux!

I assume it was running good?

Any carnage pics?

Did you get the new sleeve installed?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 2243
It was running really rich so I assumed he could not hurt it. It was still jetted the same as the Feb trip in Dumont. I can't find my close-up camera or I would have posted some carnage pics already. There are steel pieces sticking straight out of the piston, nasty. I sanded the worst of the damage to the head but it will always have some holes. Fortunatly 99% of the damage is along the outside edges, not in the dome area. It took 4 cans of carb cleaner to work every scrap of metal out of the bearings. I still have not replaced the sleeve but I will not re-bore this sleeve again. Bill down in Florida was going to help me with that when I get ready to do it. This rebuild will hopefully last a couple of years but if not...it will be new sleeve time.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Nuke Em wrote:
It was running really rich so I assumed he could not hurt it. It was still jetted the same as the Feb trip in Dumont. I can't find my close-up camera or I would have posted some carnage pics already. There are steel pieces sticking straight out of the piston, nasty. I sanded the worst of the damage to the head but it will always have some holes. Fortunatly 99% of the damage is along the outside edges, not in the dome area. It took 4 cans of carb cleaner to work every scrap of metal out of the bearings. I still have not replaced the sleeve but I will not re-bore this sleeve again. Bill down in Florida was going to help me with that when I get ready to do it. This rebuild will hopefully last a couple of years but if not...it will be new sleeve time.


What I found works well on damaged heads and maybe you have read this before is to first remove all the metal from the craters then take a small hammer and lightly tap the raised metal back down, what happens is the metal that was pushed out when the steel was driven into the head creating the crater is moved back into the crater, then sand or machine the head as usual, doing this greatly reduces the finished depth of the craters.

You should buy a new camera for all the pics you take, my camera died after the last big west trip, I replace it with this one, then the price dropped so I bought another for a backup I like it so much.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6830179105


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:40 am
Posts: 89
Location: Chesterfield/Dinwiddie Virginia
I have some pics. Hopefully I can get them loaded up.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
By chance did you have a coolent leak. The residue on piston looks antifreeze. This may help explain the rod bearing going south. Smell the reed cage for indacator of leak or just give it a lick for the sweet tast. I have a rebuilt crank with new big end bearing if yours can not be repaired. It has some hours on it but the rod bearing is new, will require new crank bearings and polish. I keep it as a spare for those kind of bangs. I also have a new 90 head with 4 hr on it uncut and un milled. You could send yours to be milled and recut and keep as spare or as a bolt on mod to enhance preformance.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:40 am
Posts: 89
Location: Chesterfield/Dinwiddie Virginia
I don't think I had a coolant leak. I just sent the Engine off to Hoser. I won't know exactly what parts I will need until it is pulled apart and inspected.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
The Engine arrived late yesterday and was well packed, no damage to the box or Engine.

I noticed a wet spot on the bottom of the Engine, this is not a good sign when their is a rod failure, I don't see any big bulge in the cases this is good, if the owner is lucky the Engine will stop as soon as it goes bad it only takes a few seconds longer to damage the cases beyond repair.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Some surface rust on the cylinder, rust happens fast so its always a good idea to coat the cylinder walls in with oil even if its used Engine oil, no damage done, 5 months from now it might have been a issue.

The piston was not installed when shipped but a rag was carefully wrapped around the rod so it did not damage the cylinder wall.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Still running the stock clutch.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
The dowel pins in the Engine case that connect to the Engine mounts are all buggered up whats up with that?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
If you look close in the bottom end you can see where the rod cut a trench in the cases.

The blue arrow is pointing to a small puddle of red antifreeze.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
With the recoil removed you can see the seal was leaking a little.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Stator side case removed getting ready to use the Honda flywheel puller


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
It works slick, soon as its pulled the flywheel goes into a new ziploc bag to keep dirt and dust off of it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
Another hoserized tool to remove that big nut, 2 sockets welded together :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Once the nut is remove its time to install the hoserized Pilot crank case splitter, part of this tool is home made some is part of one of my other pullers.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:57 pm 
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Location: Chicago
This picture is SO IMPORTANT if you plan on doing this yourself, you MUST support and protect the end of the crank shaft where the threads are, this part of the crank is real soft, if you just let the end of the push bolt to push on it most likely you will bend it or mushroom the threads where the nut will not go on, I take 2 washers and a nut screwed on the threads so the end if the crank is flush with the nut, then their is a small thin piece of metal between the nut and the push bolt to distribute the force between the nut and the end of the shaft, if you don't use the washer to shim the nut then it can damage the threads if your just pushing on the nut.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
Cases split plenty of muck in the bottom end.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
See where the rod trenched the case?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
Aluminum on the bottom of the rod, when the rod contacts the cases it moves metal you can see the raised metal where the gasket goes.

See how discolored the crank webs are from the heat.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:59 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Cylinder pictures, I hit it with the hone to clean it up.

No porting has been done to the cylinder.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:00 pm 
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Location: Chicago
The bore measures 3.169" or 80.5 mm


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