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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
Since I introduced the dual intake mod and pre filter mod for the Pilot to the Pilot Odyssey world many have put their own little twist on it and their are plenty of variations out their. http://pilotodyssey.com/intake-mod.htm

I had seen pics of the after market lid the Aussie guy (aussiduner?) was making but I never seen one in person so Mudbogger sent me one for evaluation at first glance I don't see it sealing very well where it connects to the bottom half of the air box, the stock lid leaks a little but this one looks like it will leak alot more (haven't tested it yet just looks that way) I think that could be helped by adding a little foam where it meets to seal.

The second thing I noticed is the top is sunken down into the air box, I am sure anybody that has one of these has noticed the same thing, even with the stock is modified for a dual intake the Pilots air box is too small, when you rev the Pilots Engine on a modified Pilot you can see the sides of the air box suck in momentarily ("amazing powers of observation") so reducing the volume of the air box is troublesome to me, I been putting off fabricating a new air box lid for years I was going to make use of all the extra clearance Honda left around the stock lid to increase the volume.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
All is not lost with this lid, being the type of guy to always have to fiddle with things I broke out the propane torch and started heating the plastic, after carefully, slowly heating both sides and in the right spot I got the plastic to droop to the outside where it belongs.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
Before and after cc measurments indicate that I increased the air box volume by 125cc without even really trying if I had a smaller tip torch and took my time I bet I could squeeze this lid to +200cc increase in volume.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
I wish someone would have consulted me before they went to the time and trouble to make a after market air box lid its a shame to spend the time and make it reduce the volume, I already had run the calcs on the air box volume long ago I could have used my lid for a mock up for the first mold, built up layers of bondo on the lid until the lid would just barely squeak by the interferences on the Pilot but still fit, I would also have raised the inlet openings by 2" I estimated years ago I could increase the volume by 630cc I already modified my bottom half of my air box by 145cc just by filling it with boiling water and letting the water stretch out the bottom some, you cant really tell by looking but by cc-ing the volume of the box before and after its their.

I remember someone commenting they made the air box lid because mine looked "crappy" maybe so but it also performs.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
Looking a little closer I measured the intake openings, the stock opening size of the stock air box lid the ID is 1.940 or 6.0916 sq inches

My modified intake opening measures 2.060 X 3.14 = 6.4684 so a total of 12.56 sq inches intake opening area.

The other lid intake openings measure 1.90 ID X 3.14 = 5.966 X 2 openings = 11.932 sq inches or .628 sq inches smaller than my modifed lid.

Both openings could be opended up to 2.060 ID to give you 12.93 sq inches of opening.

Someone peer checking my math here :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:52 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:24 am
Posts: 796
Location: Bolton Ma
Hoser peer check here. ;)

You used the formula for circumference (the distance around a circle)
instead of the area of a circle.

(What triggered me was the fact that your first value was 12.5 square inches. That is ~ a square the size of 3" by 4".)

I used this site to refresh me on my circle formulas.
http://www.1728.com/diamform.htm

Circle Area = Pi x radius^2
Spoken: Pi times radius squared where Pi is 3.1415926

Radius is 1/2 of the diameter.

A recalc shows:

Value___Stock_____Hoser____Aussiedune
Radius___0.97______1.03_______0.95
Area ____2.956_____3.333______2.835
2 holes___N.A.______6.666______5.670____The Area times 2

Compared to Stock Units in Square inches Larger than stock
________Stock_____Hoser____Aussiedune
__________0________3.71_______2.71

Percentage wise: This is how I calculate it.
I divided the total area of Hoser or Aussiedunes openings by the
area of the stock opening and multiply by 100 for percentage.
This tells us that Hoser's is 225% The volume of stock.

________Stock_____Hoser______Aussiedune
__________0_______225.5%______191.8%

But if we take away the 100% volume for the stock opening we get how much larger each lid's dual openings combined as compared to stock.

________Stock_____Hoser______Aussiedune
__________0_______125.5%_______91.8%

So hoser's is 125% larger than stock. And Aussiedunes is 91.8%

As a side note since we're comparing two sets of volumes and the formulas are the same. The math reduces to a formula that doesn't even need Pi.

Test Radius Squared times 2 all divided by Stock Radius Squared will give us the same percentages.


Make sense? Do others compare percentages differently?

Another interesting fact would be to measure the air box air pressure on the same Engine across RPMs. Measure this for both lids and see that the stock has a much more negative pressure than the modified lids. And plot this as a comparison with a static atmospheric air pressure.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:54 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Thanks for the peer check that's why I asked...

You make my brain hurt with all that :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:24 am
Posts: 796
Location: Bolton Ma
np.

Good thing you caught me in the morning. ;)

I actually formatted it nicely with spaces and all so columns would line up.
the BBS code must reduce successive spaces into one.


FYI: I editted the previous post to format the numbers a bit better.


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 Post subject: Dual Lid
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 386
I had just installed one of these new lids on the Big Western ride and just FYI, be careful to seal the area around where the box connects with the lid. I used the white seal around the top of the box that was provided with the instructions with the lid. But later discovered when trying to jet out at Saint Anthony that I could cover both intakes and the pilot would still run. It sucked enough air to run from around the top of the lid. When I came home, just for sanity sake, I put the stock air box lid back on and covered the intake and stalled the Engine like it should. For you guys that run in sand and/or dust be extra careful as the lid will defeat your prefilter if it is not run with a proper seal around the top of the box. Maybe industrial foam? Any thoughts/ideas?

Pilotman


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:24 am
Posts: 796
Location: Bolton Ma
Great advice and test technique.

Sweet and simple too.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
Like I said before I think adding a quality closed cell foam seal to the bottom side of the lid would take care or help the leak between the lid and the air box, people using prefilters with this lid will probably see the leakage on their main filter in the air box http://pilotodyssey.com/prefilter2001.htm


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
MassOdy wrote:
Another interesting fact would be to measure the air box air pressure on the same Engine across RPMs. Measure this for both lids and see that the stock has a much more negative pressure than the modified lids. And plot this as a comparison with a static atmospheric air pressure.



I have a draft gauge that would measure the negative pressure in the air box at a given point knowing the area and the pressure I could calculate the flow I also might have access to a flow hood used in testing and balancing HVAC duct systems only problem is these test instruments are fragile and sensitive so strapping one on the Pilot and taking it for a ride is out of the question I would need to find a chassis dyno to get some numbers even then you don't get data where my prefilters are hitting the wind when the Pilot is in motion.

One thing I know for sure is each time my Pilot takes a gasp for air their is more available closer to the place it burns it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
Must have modification if you ride off road :-) http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=3211


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