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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1009
Location: hole above ground
Hello this is a work in progress on part # 43210-xxx-006
Bracket for odyssey and Pilot rear Disk brake

Has I start the measuring I use gage pins in the holes so we know the diameter for each.
Then by indicating pins C and F in a straight line and then bolt to an angel plate.
Then we measure between all the pins so we can get them drawn on screen first.


Attachments:
File comment: I this pic I have setup bracket and indicated pin C & F and scribed lines .5 " apart off the center line of pin C = my zero point
MVC-378X.JPG
MVC-378X.JPG [ 74.12 KiB | Viewed 6986 times ]
File comment: I this pic I measuring scribed points off the center line of C
MVC-381X.JPG
MVC-381X.JPG [ 159.87 KiB | Viewed 7507 times ]
File comment: In this Pic we have drawn pins C, F, B the ½” scribed line some upper and lower lines
MVC-379X.JPG
MVC-379X.JPG [ 96.95 KiB | Viewed 7854 times ]
File comment: In this Pic we are drawing some of the intersections that we have measured
MVC-383X.JPG
MVC-383X.JPG [ 169.31 KiB | Viewed 7507 times ]
File comment: In this Pic we have the intersections that we have measured
The small circles are the points.
Now we start to draw

MVC-385X.JPG
MVC-385X.JPG [ 175.77 KiB | Viewed 7507 times ]
File comment: more of the out side profile with lines and arcs
MVC-386X.JPG
MVC-386X.JPG [ 140.04 KiB | Viewed 7507 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1009
Location: hole above ground
next


Attachments:
File comment: more of the out side profile with lines and arcs
MVC-387X.JPG
MVC-387X.JPG [ 175.98 KiB | Viewed 7507 times ]
File comment: more of the out side profile with lines and arcs
MVC-388X.JPG
MVC-388X.JPG [ 175.17 KiB | Viewed 7507 times ]
File comment: Cleaning up drawing I think I’m satisfied with out side profile
MVC-389X.JPG
MVC-389X.JPG [ 162.99 KiB | Viewed 7508 times ]
File comment: Working on the part that wares out drawing the inside profile
O wow pin A is drawn in know

MVC-391X.JPG
MVC-391X.JPG [ 161.83 KiB | Viewed 7508 times ]
File comment: Drawing countered bore hole on pin A and B for inside profile
MVC-392X.JPG
MVC-392X.JPG [ 172.16 KiB | Viewed 7507 times ]
File comment: Finishing up inside profile with radius and one straight line on bottom
I’m satisfied with the profile and will be going to 3d solids next

MVC-395X.JPG
MVC-395X.JPG [ 163.7 KiB | Viewed 7507 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:45 pm
Posts: 876
Great job! Very impressive.
what will these be made of?
Put me down for 2 please :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
Looks great I cant wait to see the finished product.

Every Pilot and Odyssey rear brake will end up looking like this one, that is pics of my old one I bought a whole new assembly, Honda don't make them any more :shock:

viewtopic.php?t=3865


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1009
Location: hole above ground
Hello this is a work in progress on part # 43210-xxx-006
Bracket for odyssey and Pilot rear Disk brake
Part Two drawing in 3d solids


Attachments:
File comment: Here we start out with the 2d drawing
MVC-396X.JPG
MVC-396X.JPG [ 50.88 KiB | Viewed 7781 times ]
File comment: Here we extrude to make 3d
MVC-397X.JPG
MVC-397X.JPG [ 62.29 KiB | Viewed 7781 times ]
File comment: Here we put 2 small holes thru block for ref.
MVC-398X.JPG
MVC-398X.JPG [ 59.03 KiB | Viewed 7781 times ]
File comment: Here we draw 2 circles and extrude to make in to bosses
MVC-399X.JPG
MVC-399X.JPG [ 63.83 KiB | Viewed 7781 times ]
File comment: Here we drill 2 thru holes to size for mounting and 2 more ref hole for the slider pin
MVC-400X.JPG
MVC-400X.JPG [ 59.41 KiB | Viewed 7781 times ]
File comment: Here we draw a couple of boss for the slider pin
MVC-406X.JPG
MVC-406X.JPG [ 148.85 KiB | Viewed 7507 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1009
Location: hole above ground
Next
I would go in to more detail but I burn up about 10 hr drawing to day no this
Eyes little burned


Attachments:
File comment: Here we draw a couple ref lines so we can slice out the clearances for rotor
MVC-413X.JPG
MVC-413X.JPG [ 55.17 KiB | Viewed 7779 times ]
File comment: Here we see that it as been sliced up
MVC-414X.JPG
MVC-414X.JPG [ 55.9 KiB | Viewed 7779 times ]
File comment: Going back to pic 397 you see two lines above the two slider hole
That is the next slice to make

MVC-397X.JPG
MVC-397X.JPG [ 62.29 KiB | Viewed 7779 times ]
File comment: Here we see that it as been sliced up and the two chunks deleted and all other slices been rejoined
MVC-415X.JPG
MVC-415X.JPG [ 51.88 KiB | Viewed 7779 times ]
File comment: Here I’m clean up radius make it look Better
MVC-417X.JPG
MVC-417X.JPG [ 54.52 KiB | Viewed 7779 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1009
Location: hole above ground
Next
just finishing up


Attachments:
MVC-418X.JPG
MVC-418X.JPG [ 54.13 KiB | Viewed 7778 times ]
MVC-419X.JPG
MVC-419X.JPG [ 54.77 KiB | Viewed 7778 times ]
File comment: well there you go
ready to cut some

MVC-420X.JPG
MVC-420X.JPG [ 58.66 KiB | Viewed 7778 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:45 pm
Posts: 876
That is truely amazing to me.
I should have finished college.
Thanks for taking time to do this :-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
Stoneman wrote:
That is truely amazing to me.
I should have finished college.
Thanks for taking time to do this :-)


Ditto!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1009
Location: hole above ground
Ok
We need some pros and cons on
Materials Types
I thinking of using
A36 Mild Steel
ASTM A36 steel is the most commonly available of the hot-rolled steels. It is generally available in round rod, square bar, rectangle bar, as well as steel shapes such as I-Beams, H-beams, angles, and channels. The hot roll process means that the surface on this steel will be somewhat rough. Note that its yield strength is also significantly less than 1018 - this means that it will bend much more quickly than will 1018. Finally, machining this material is noticeably more difficult than 1018 steel, but the cost is usually significantly lower.
ASTM A36 Mild (low-carbon) steel
Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 58,000 - 79,800
Yield Strength, psi 36,300
Elongation 20.0%
Chemistry Iron (Fe) 99%
Carbon (C) 0.26%
Manganese (Mn) 0.75%
Copper (Cu) 0.2%
Phosphorus (P) 0.04% max
Sulfur (S) 0.05% max

The pros are
Stronger
Better wear
More wear on slider bolt pins witch will be much less cost to replace then this bracket
No need to use Part # 45112-xxx-0006 RETAINER BRACKET That is Not available
The out side profile Can be flame cut save on material waste and cut time
Can be E coated for protection for rust
Cheaper then 6061 aluminum buy 2 to 2-1/2 times
Cheaper then 7075 aluminum buy 3 to 3-1/2 times


Cons
Rust
Heaver then aluminum in weight


Aluminum
6061-T6 Aluminum
Physical and Mechanical Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 45,000
Yield Strength, psi 40,000
Brinell Hardness 95
Rockwell Hardness B60
Chemistry Aluminum (Al) 95.8 - 98.6%
Chromium (Cr) 0.04 - 0.35%
Copper (Cu) 0.15 - 0.40%
Magnesium (Mg) 0.8 - 1.2%
Manganese (Mn) 0.15% max
Silicon (Si) 2.8 - 3.8%
Zinc (Zn) 1.5% max

7075-T6 Aluminum
Physical and Mechanical Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 83,000
Yield Strength, psi 73,000
Brinell Hardness 150
Rockwell Hardness B87
Chemistry Aluminum (Al) 87.1 - 91.4%
Zinc (Zn) 5.1 - 6.1% max
Copper (Cu) 1.2 - 2.0%
Chromium (Cr) 0.18 - 0.28%
Iron (Fe) 0.5 max
Magnesium (Mg) 2.1 - 2.9%
Manganese (Mn) 0.3% max

Pros
Not as heavy as steel
Will not rust
6061 is machines faster less cut time
7075 hard as steel

Cons
Will corrode will need to be E coated
will need to use Part # 45112-xxx-0006 RETAINER BRACKET That is Not available
6061 will wear faster in slider pin bolt holes
7075 will wear in slider pin bolt holes but not as fast as 6061



Well if you Have something you would like to add post away


Fist ones to be cut will be out of steel for fit. will post pic's of machining
To figure cost of machining time setup and fixturing

thanks for looking
Speedchaser


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
I am no guru on materials for this kind of thing but I hate rust...

I would like to see a cost per bracket using steel and aluminum if at all possible then decide based on the cost,
I assume once you have done a few out of steel you can figure the cost if you used aluminum?

Great looking work so far thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:04 am
Posts: 465
Location: Springfield Ohio
The cost of the materials themselves are inconsequential when you consider your time. Even at minimum wage, one hour will purchase several aluminum blanks. Select the material based on performance and manufacturability (Al good for corrosions and machining time, steel good for strength and wear).


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2825
Location: Wichita ks
I would prefer AL . I would think the Al would help disapate heat and act as a heat sink disapating heat transfer to steel pins in to the case.. Other thought would be if steel and heat transfer thru into pin and caliper might have an effect on fluid residance in the caliper as well as added maintance to the lubracatiing of the pins or syn lub to handle the temps. The silocone % will help with thermal expansion however the quanity may be to low. If steel the tolorence may need to be increased to accomadate the expansion and keep the claiper for locking up on the pins and loosing breaking effency. For me I would lean torward the 6061 I feel it would be a good all around choice. If need be press a brass insert into the Al and it will whare the steel pin before taking out the Al and the brass insert can be replaced as part of a rebuild kit saving the cost of the Al bracket. Kit could contain new brass inserts and pins. As far ar the pins go you could heat them up to 200 degrees in an oven and soak into a syn base lube changing the molcle structure alowing the steel to asorb the syn and when cooling maintaing the syn lub in the steel which can be released under extream braking as not to lock on bracket futhure reducing the thermal effect.This may be where the turbo brake caliper fan can reduce the effect. I would pay the exta to have AL. Man I sure wish I had skill like that. Really nice work. Thank yo for your work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:01 am
Posts: 85
Location: California, Central Coast
6061-T6 alum is a good choice. A36 is more used in fabrication than machining. If it can be machined, it is just not typically used for a part like this. If this was to be made of steel 12L14 would be the material of choice since it does not require high strength and will not be welded. 12L14 is considered "free machining" so even though the material cost is more than A36, it machines much faster so the finished part should cost less; especially on a part like this where there is so much material to be removed. Another material option would be 303 Stainless. It has very good corrosion properties compared to steel and is also very easy to machine. The weight of this part in steel or stainless would be a lot so 6061 is probably the best choice. Your CAD system will probably give you mass properties of your part based on the density of the material (roughly .1 lb/ft^3 for AL or .3 lb/ft^3 for steel/stainless) You could of course add features such as holes/slots to lighten the steel/stainless part but it would cost that much more in machine time.

Using an oilite bronze bushing would be a great idea for the pins to slide in. They are very inexpensive and would function very well in this application. Oilite it a porous bronze material impregnated with oil; as there is a sliding action (friction) the oil is drawn to the surface to lubricate that interface. A great source for bushings or any industrial mechanical components is http://www.mcmaster.com

An other option would be to hard anodize the aluminum to significantly increase the wear properties. You would have to take the thickness of the hard anodizing into account for the holes as it is typically 2-3 MILS (.002 - .003") so on a hole you would need to over size it .004 to .006" for proper fit. They can control the anodizing thickness very well, you just have to spec that it be controlled.

Nice work on the reverse engineering!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1009
Location: hole above ground
Hello all cut one out to day out of block of 6061
did all right not bad for the first one


Attachments:
File comment: broke 3/4" carbide end mill in this pic cut out bottom side first the taped holes are for mounting to fixture to cut other side
MVC-427X.JPG
MVC-427X.JPG [ 94.85 KiB | Viewed 7750 times ]
File comment: cheaking fit of bottom side
MVC-429X.JPG
MVC-429X.JPG [ 100.06 KiB | Viewed 7750 times ]
File comment: fixture to mount bracket to cut other side
MVC-431X.JPG
MVC-431X.JPG [ 73.95 KiB | Viewed 7750 times ]
File comment: here i have it mouted if fixture and started cutting top side
MVC-432X.JPG
MVC-432X.JPG [ 90.72 KiB | Viewed 7750 times ]
File comment: finshing up cutting out side profile
MVC-433X.JPG
MVC-433X.JPG [ 89.21 KiB | Viewed 7750 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1009
Location: hole above ground
next


Attachments:
File comment: drilled slider pin holes and counterbored holes for rubber boot
MVC-435X.JPG
MVC-435X.JPG [ 70.75 KiB | Viewed 7709 times ]
File comment: under cut counterbored hole so the rubber boot locks in like stock bracket
MVC-437X.JPG
MVC-437X.JPG [ 65.89 KiB | Viewed 7709 times ]
File comment: cheaking fit of rubber boot
MVC-436X.JPG
MVC-436X.JPG [ 64.8 KiB | Viewed 7709 times ]
File comment: seting up to cut slots for rotor
and slots for
Part # 45112-xxx-0006 RETAINER BRACKET

MVC-439X.JPG
MVC-439X.JPG [ 68.87 KiB | Viewed 7709 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1009
Location: hole above ground
next :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
-::


Attachments:
File comment: before
MVC-440X.JPG
MVC-440X.JPG [ 57.83 KiB | Viewed 7708 times ]
File comment: after fun fun fun
MVC-441X.JPG
MVC-441X.JPG [ 67.24 KiB | Viewed 7708 times ]
File comment: after cutting slots for rotor
MVC-442X.JPG
MVC-442X.JPG [ 75.02 KiB | Viewed 7708 times ]
File comment: after cutting pockets for
Part # 45112-xxx-0006 RETAINER BRACKET

MVC-447X.JPG
MVC-447X.JPG [ 94.84 KiB | Viewed 7708 times ]
File comment: fitting
Part # 45112-xxx-0006 RETAINER BRACKET

MVC-448X.JPG
MVC-448X.JPG [ 94.79 KiB | Viewed 7708 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1009
Location: hole above ground
next :-) :-) :-) -::
-:: -::


Attachments:
File comment: finshing up for today
MVC-449X.JPG
MVC-449X.JPG [ 101.74 KiB | Viewed 7706 times ]
File comment: next pic
MVC-450X.JPG
MVC-450X.JPG [ 103.77 KiB | Viewed 7706 times ]
File comment: last pic for Today all in all not to bad for first one. Gets better from here on out
MVC-451X.JPG
MVC-451X.JPG [ 104.27 KiB | Viewed 7706 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
WOW that's sweet!

You make this look so easy even though I know its NOT and very time consuming.

Thanks for supporting the Pilot Odyssey community :-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:45 pm
Posts: 876
That is beautiful :-)

Will there be a brass sleeve where the silder bolts ride?
great work


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 Post subject: Wow - Chubbyville
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 386
That is SWEET work..... You need to count me in for 2 of them when you get done with prototype.....

Nice work.... Pilotman


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1009
Location: hole above ground
No room for a bronze bushing the rubber boot will not work then. Hole for rubber boot is .426 dia slider pin hole .354
That gives you .072 oval .036 per side thin wall bushing may work out of stainless steel witch would have to be made
and probably not cost affective
Thanks speed


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:01 am
Posts: 85
Location: California, Central Coast
Nice Part! That is a LOT of work!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Man that's terrific work Speed-count me in for 2 as well please.And thanks for the contribution to the POOA it is greatly appreciated!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Beautiful job I am envious of your talents!!!


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